SUDDEUTSCHE ZEITUNG MAGAZIN — "I WAS AFRAID OF NOT BEING RECOGNIZED" — ISSUE 45 — By THOMAS BÄRNTHALER

FASHION DESIGNER RICK OWENS FACED NUMEROUS CHALLENGES ON HIS PATH TO SUCCESS, INCLUDING A HOMOPHOBIC FATHER, PERSONAL SHAME, AND STRUGGLES WITH ALCOHOLISM. THIS JOURNEY REFLECTS A CONVERSATION ABOUT TRANSFORMING FEAR INTO EMPOWERMENT.

RICK OWENS, AN AMERICAN-BORN DESIGNER, HAS A FIVE-STORY PROPERTY IN THE 7TH ARRONDISSEMENT OF PARIS, CLOSE TO THE MUSÉE D'ORSAY. THIS BUILDING USED TO SERVE AS THE OFFICES OF FRANÇOIS MITTERRAND. INSIDE, THE CLASSICIST ARCHITECTURE TAKES ON A BRUTALIST TWIST, FEATURING A COMBINATION OF STUCCO AND EXPOSED CONCRETE ILLUMINATED BY NEON LIGHTS. THE ROOMS ARE ADORNED WITH LARGE, CHUNKY TABLES AND ROWS OF SOFAS MADE FROM ROUGH COW LEATHER. ARTWORK IS THOUGHTFULLY DISPLAYED THROUGHOUT, INCLUDING DARK PAINTINGS, EERIE WAX SCULPTURES OF SHRUNKEN HEADS, AND A FREEZER CONTAINING SPERM FROM A FAMOUS RAPPER, ALL PROTECTED BY BULLETPROOF GLASS. OWENS NAVIGATES HIS SPACE WEARING OVERSIZED SNEAKERS, BLACK KNEE SOCKS, SHORTS, AND A MUSCLE SHIRT. HIS FANS REFER TO HIM AS THE "LORD OF DARKNESS," WITH CELEBRITIES LIKE BEYONCÉ, ASAP ROCKY, TAYLOR SWIFT, AND KANYE WEST DONNING HIS DESIGNS. OWENS IS A REFLECTIVE AND EXCEPTIONALLY OPEN CONVERSATIONALIST; WHEN SOMETHING MATTERS TO HIM, HE EMPHASIZES IT BY SNAPPING HIS FINGERS.



SZ-MAGAZIN: MR. OWENS, YOUR FASHION SHOWS FEATURE LATEX MASKS, HORNS, STRAP-ON WINGS, BODY PROSTHESES, AND INFLATABLE PLATFORM BOOTS. WHO IS YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE?

RICK OWENS: FOR ME, MY FASHION IS INFLUENCED BY JAPANESE KABUKI THEATER, THE SCULPTURES OF BRANCUSI, AND THE ART OF DONALD JUDD. EVERY CREATIVE PERSON TAKES INSPIRATION FROM WHAT THEY'VE SEEN AND CREATES A NEW, PERSONAL COMPOSITION FROM IT. EVERYTHING I CREATE HAS BEEN SEEN BEFORE AND IS FAMILIAR TO EVERYONE.



BY "EVERYONE," DO YOU MEAN YOUR SMALL BUT VERY WEALTHY FOLLOWING?

I'M NEITHER DIOR NOR GUCCI. I ONLY NEED TO PLEASE ONE PERSON: MYSELF. FORTUNATELY, THERE ARE ENOUGH PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THAT, ALLOWING ME TO MAKE A GOOD LIVING.



BEYOND THE STARS, YOUR FOLLOWING IS DRAWN FROM THE GOTHIC, QUEER, AND HEAVY METAL SCENES. WHAT DO YOU HAVE IN COMMON WITH THESE PEOPLE?

I THINK IT'S MY MELODRAMA. I GREW UP WITHOUT A TELEVISION, BUT MY FATHER LOVED OPERA. AT FIRST, I HATED IT, BUT THEN I GREW INTO IT. OPERA IS ABOUT TRANSCENDENCE, ABOUT LIVING THROUGH A CONFLICT, IN LIFE, IN LOVE. SOMETIMES THIS TRANSFORMATION ENDS IN DEATH. AND: OPERAS ARE INCREDIBLY RAUNCHY! THAT CAN LEAVE AN IMPRESSION ON A TEN-YEAR-OLD. MY SENSE OF MAGIC, OF RITUALS, ATTRACTS CERTAIN PEOPLE.



IN 2022, YOU INTRODUCED PORTABLE FOG MACHINES AS FASHION ACCESSORIES. HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

FOG IS ONE OF MY LEITMOTIFS. FOG IS CHEAP, BOMBASTIC, BIG. IT APPEARS IN DISCOS, IN CHURCHES, AND IN NATURE. IT IS MYSTERIOUS AND MAGICAL. IT IS CHEAP MAGIC.



HOW MANY DID THEY SELL?

I'D HAVE TO ASK. (OWENS BRINGS OUT A SMALL SQUARE SUITCASE CONTAINING ONE OF THE FOG MACHINES.) THE RAPPER TRAVIS SCOTT USED IT FOR AN APPEARANCE ON SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE. ON LOAN.



AN ACCESSORY FOR ECCENTRIC POP STARS.

DON'T YOU THINK SO? I HAVE ONE TOO. WE HAVE SOME THAT YOU CAN ATTACH TO YOUR SHOE. OR A BIG ONE THAT ROLLS AROUND ON WHEELS. I HAVE SIX OF THEM IN MY APARTMENT IN CONCORDIA, SICILY, AS SIDE TABLES.



WHAT IS YOUR FASHION ABOUT?

FANTASIES THAT CAN BECOME REALITY. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN IRRITATED BY MALE DESIGNERS WHO FIRST SEND MODELS DOWN THE RUNWAY IN HIGH HEELS, HUGE DRESSES, AND HATS AND THEN AFTERWARD LET THEMSELVES BE CELEBRATED ON THE RUNWAY IN JEANS, T-SHIRTS, AND SNEAKERS. THE MESSAGE BEHIND IT WAS: I AM PRESENTING YOU WITH AN IMPOSSIBLE FANTASY BECAUSE, IN REAL LIFE, I CLING TO THE CONVENTIONAL COMFORTS OF THE WORLD.



THAT CANNOT BE SAID OF YOU. SINCE I STARTED DESIGNING, EVERYTHING I DESIGN, AND PRODUCE IS INTENDED FOR EVERYDAY USE. YOU CAN ALSO DESIGN EXTREME FASHION TO FIT INTO EVERYDAY LIFE - THROUGH CERTAIN MATERIALS, JUST THROUGH WEARING AND THE PATINA THAT COMES WITH IT. I WANTED TO CORRUPT EVERYDAY LIFE, TO HAVE SOME FANTASY AND MAGIC IN EVERYDAY LIFE.



"DIRTY HABITS, THAT'S WHAT MY CLOTHES ARE ABOUT," IS HOW YOU SUMMED UP YOUR CREDO 25 YEARS AGO.

THAT'S STILL TRUE, BUT NOT QUITE ANYMORE. I GREW UP IN THE SMALL TOWN OF PORTERVILLE, CALIFORNIA, WITH FEAR AND SHAME BECAUSE OF MY PERSONAL EXTRAVAGANCE. MY CAREER IS MY WAY OF MOCKING SHAME AND DISCRIMINATION. WHEN I WEAR PLATFORM BOOTS AT THE AIRPORT, I DON'T DO IT TO LOOK HOT. I DO IT TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT THEIR IDEALS OF BEAUTY ARE VERY LIMITED. I REMIND YOUNG PEOPLE THAT ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, EVEN WHAT I LIVE.



HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR IDEA OF BEAUTY?

I PUSH BOUNDARIES, BUT I ALSO CELEBRATE CLASSICAL BEAUTY. MUCH OF MY FASHION IS BASED ON ANCIENT GREEK DRAPING, BIBLICAL ROBES, AND CLERICAL GARMENTS. I AM VERY MUCH ROOTED IN THE 1930S AND LOVE ART DECO DRESSES. I JUST CHOOSE MY FAVORITE THINGS FROM EACH ERA.



WHAT IS YOUR LATEST DISCOVERY?

TURKISH-BORN ARTIST SISSY MISFIT. SHE IS PART OF A NEW TRANSGENDER TECHNO-PUNK ROCK SCENE. HER MUSIC IS SO POWERFUL, HER LOOK AND HER STAGE PRESENCE ARE SO STRONG! I HAVE ALWAYS ADMIRED THE TRANS COMMUNITY. WHEN I WAS PART OF THE LOS ANGELES TRANS SCENE 30 YEARS AGO, NOBODY CARED ABOUT PRONOUNS. IT WAS MUCH MORE CHAOTIC. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN FASCINATED BY THE DESIRE TO BE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.



WHY?

BECAUSE I HAD TO. I WANTED TO BE SOMEONE ELSE TO GET WHERE I WANTED TO GO. I OFTEN WONDERED WHY GAY MEN WERE INTERESTED IN DIVAS. WHY WOMEN LIKE JOAN CRAWFORD IN OLD FILMS? FOR YOUNG GAY MEN, THIS CAN BE VERY IDENTITY-FORMING BECAUSE THEIR FEMININITY IS A HANDICAP IN A MAN'S WORLD. IT'S ABOUT BEING STRONG, DESPITE YOUR OWN FEMININITY, WHICH IS CONSIDERED UNACCEPTABLE.



HOW FEMININE DO YOU FEEL IN YOURSELF? YOU LOOK QUITE MASCULINE.

THAT'S BECAUSE I'VE TRANSFORMED MYSELF. BUT I USED TO BE A VERY SENSITIVE, FRAGILE LITTLE BOY. I DIDN'T HAVE ANY COUSINS OR OTHER CHILDREN IN MY LIFE. I WAS VERY CLOSE TO MY PARENTS IN A VERY SMALL TOWN. I DIDN'T LEARN TO BE PART OF A GROUP. WHEN I WAS EXPOSED TO OTHERS AT SCHOOL, I WAS COMPLETELY UNPROTECTED. I HAD TO LEARN TO PROTECT MYSELF. IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, I WAS VERY AFRAID TO TAKE MY CLOTHES OFF. EVEN AS A TEENAGER, I WAS AFRAID TO SHOWER WITH THE OTHERS AFTER GYM CLASS. NUDITY IN THIS ENVIRONMENT FULL OF TESTOSTERONE MADE ME NERVOUS, PROBABLY BECAUSE IT POSED AN EROTIC THREAT TO ME.



DID YOU KNOW BACK THEN THAT YOU WERE NOT HETEROSEXUAL?

OH YES! AND I WAS BULLIED. MY PARENTS DIDN'T KNOW THAT, OR THEY DID, BUT THEY DIDN'T TALK ABOUT IT. MY CHILDHOOD WAS MISERABLE. MY HOMETOWN, WHICH I AVOIDED FOR A LONG TIME AS AN ADULT, WAS AN AGRICULTURAL TOWN FULL OF COWBOYS AND MEXICANS. FULL OF HOSTILITY TOWARDS ME. MY FATHER WAS EXTREMELY HOMOPHOBIC. I WASN'T REALLY PUNISHED FOR MY SEXUAL ORIENTATION, BUT HE EXPOSED ME. WE ALSO HAD CONFLICTS LATER ON WHEN I LIVED OUT MY SEXUALITY VERY OPENLY AS AN ADULT. AFTER HIGH SCHOOL, I STARTED BODYBUILDING. I TOOK STEROIDS AND TURNED MYSELF INTO SOMEONE WHO FELT COMPLETELY AT HOME IN THE LOCKER ROOM. AND IT WORKED NOT ONLY IN THE LOCKER ROOM BUT ALSO IN SEX CLUBS FULL OF NAKED MEN. ACTUALLY, IN ALL-MALE ENVIRONMENTS WHERE EROTICISM PLAYS THE MAIN ROLE. WHAT WAS ONCE FEAR WAS NOW TOTAL SOVEREIGNTY.



WHAT DID YOU LOOK LIKE THEN?

I WORE DR. MARTEN BOOTS, BLACK WORK TROUSERS THAT I WORE BACKWARDS SO THE POCKETS FLAPPED AROUND, BLACK UNDERSHIRTS WITH BLACK SUSPENDERS ON TOP, BLACK GLOVES, A ROSARY AROUND MY NECK. A CHAIN HUNG FROM MY EAR TO MY NOSE RING. ON TOP, A MOHAWK MADE OF BLEACHED HAIR. I WORE A LOT OF CHANEL MAKE-UP, A LOT OF WHITE POWDER. I LOOKED LIKE A KABUKI ACTRESS.



WHAT WERE YOUR DREAMS AFTER SCHOOL IN THE MID-1980S?

I MOVED TO LOS ANGELES TO GO TO ART SCHOOL BUT DROPPED OUT AFTER A YEAR BECAUSE I FOUND IT TOO INTELLECTUALLY DEMANDING. BUT I DID HAVE A TALENT FOR THREE-DIMENSIONAL WORK AND WAS PRETTY GOOD AT MAKING PATTERNS. I BECAME A PATTERN MAKER FOR A FABRIC MANUFACTURER AND MADE GOOD MONEY, WHICH I USED TO BUY ALCOHOL AND DRUGS AND GO OUT EVERY NIGHT. WHILE GOING OUT, I MET MICHÈLE LAMY, WHO GAVE ME A JOB AT HER FASHION LABEL.



WAS THAT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR LOVE FOR MICHÈLE LAMY, A FLAMBOYANT DANCER FROM PARIS AND ICON OF HOLLYWOOD NIGHTLIFE, WHO WAS 17 YEARS OLDER THAN YOU?

NO, I WAS JUST GOOD AT WHAT I DID. I HAD A STYLE THAT SHE THOUGHT WOULD SUIT HER LABEL. AT THE TIME, SHE WAS ALREADY RUNNING LE DEUX CAFÉS, WHICH BECAME A CABARET-LIKE NIGHTLIFE SPOT IN HOLLYWOOD. IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO DEVOTE HERSELF TO IT FULL-TIME, SHE GAVE UP HER LABEL. AFTER A FEW YEARS, WE FELL IN LOVE.



WHAT IS THE SECRET OF THEIR 30-YEAR RELATIONSHIP?

WE BOTH NEEDED OUR OPPOSITES IN OUR LIVES. I WAS ATTRACTED TO MICHÈLE BECAUSE SHE IS ELEGANT AND BARBARIC AT THE SAME TIME. I NEEDED MORE LOOSENESS. SHE NEEDED TO BE GROUNDED. SHE PREFERS TO RUN IN ALL DIRECTIONS AND NEVER GET ANYWHERE, I GO STRAIGHT FROM A TO B.



HOW WOULD YOU RATE YOUR WIFE'S INFLUENCE ON YOUR CAREER?

I HAVE NEVER MET ANYONE WHOSE TASTE I TRUST MORE. HER AESTHETIC IS SOPHISTICATED, BRUTAL, AND RAW AT THE SAME TIME. SHE MAKES MY PERSONAL PREFERENCES TANGIBLE. TOGETHER WE ARE UNBEATABLE. I GREW UP IN HUMBLE CIRCUMSTANCES AND WANTED TO MAKE IT BIG. SHE GREW UP IN UPPER-CLASS SPLENDOR AND WANTED TO LEAD A SIMPLE LIFE. THAT IS WHAT MAKES UP OUR CHEMISTRY TO THIS DAY.



SUCCESSFUL LABELS OFTEN ATTRACT THE ATTENTION OF LARGE COMPANIES. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TEMPTED TO SELL?

OH YES. ONCE SOMEONE WANTED TO TAKE OVER MY COMPANY AND BUY MY RIGHTS, I THOUGHT THAT OPPORTUNITY WOULD NEVER COME AGAIN. BUT THEN, MY PARTNERS WANTED ME TO EXPAND. AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID. WE WERE MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN WE EVER DREAMED. I WOULD NEVER SELL AGAIN.



WHAT BOTHERS YOU MOST ABOUT TODAY'S FASHION INDUSTRY, WHICH IS FIRMLY IN THE HANDS OF A FEW CORPORATIONS?

NOTHING. I'M NOT ONE OF THEM. AND THE MORE IT GOES IN THAT DIRECTION, THE MORE UNIQUE I AM.



ACCORDING TO YOURSELF, YOU HAD A FULL-BLOWN DRINKING PROBLEM AT THE END OF THE 1990S. WHAT SAVED YOU?

FEAR. I GOT TO A POINT WHERE I WAS AFRAID I WAS GOING TO DIE OF ALCOHOLISM. I HAD TO QUIT THREE OR FOUR TIMES BECAUSE IT DIDN'T WORK AT FIRST. I WAS VERY FRUSTRATED AT THE TIME. I WAS AFRAID OF NOT BEING RECOGNIZED. IT TOOK A LOT OF AGGRESSION AND AMBITION TO FIGHT FOR RECOGNITION. AND FOR THAT, I NEEDED ALCOHOL.



HOW COULD YOU FUNCTION AS A DRINKER?

IT'S FINE WHEN YOU'RE IN YOUR THIRTIES. BUT NOT AFTER THAT. I ALSO HAD A MELANCHOLIC, SELF-DESTRUCTIVE SIDE: SOMETIMES, I WOULD GET DRUNK FOR THREE DAYS UNTIL I LOST CONSCIOUSNESS. BECAUSE I WAS STRESSED, BECAUSE I WAS SCARED, AND JUST WANTED TO DISAPPEAR. IT WAS A KIND OF TEMPORARY SUICIDE. BUT THEN EVERYTHING CHANGED: SUCCESS CAME, AND I GOT OUT OF IT. I STILL HAVE ALCOHOL IN THE HOUSE TODAY. I THINK DRINKING IS GREAT. IT JUST DIDN'T WORK FOR ME.



WHAT ARE YOUR DRUGS OF CHOICE TODAY?

CIGARETTES AND SUGAR. I LIKE TO SMOKE BEFORE I GO TO SLEEP, IT PUTS ME IN THAT PEACEFUL SLEEP MODE. I EAT A LOT OF CAKE, BUT I ALSO EXERCISE A LOT. LIKE EVERY DAY.



ARE YOU STILL TAKING STEROIDS?

NO. BUT I WILL ASK MY DOCTOR ABOUT TESTOSTERONE. I LIKE BEING SKINNY, BUT I SHOULD HAVE MORE MUSCLE FOR TRAINING SO OFTEN. MAYBE IT'S AGE? OR MAYBE I NEED TO CHANGE MY DIET.



TESTOSTERONE IS SUSPECTED OF CAUSING HAIR LOSS.

REALLY? THERE IS ALWAYS SOME PROBLEM.



WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON COSMETIC SURGERY OR BOTOX?

EVERYONE SHOULD DO WHAT MAKES THEM HAPPY. I THINK IT'S HARSH THAT 20-YEAR-OLDS ARE ALREADY DOING IT TODAY. BUT MAYBE IT'S THE DUTY OF EVERY GENERATION TO OFFEND THE PREVIOUS GENERATION. WE GOT TATTOOS TO SCARE OUR PARENTS. TODAY'S KIDS JUST GET THEIR FACES OPERATED ON. MY HAIR IS FAKE, MY TEETH TOO.



THE HAIR?

IT'S MINE, BUT IT WOULD BE WHITE AND FRIZZY. I HAVE IT DYED AND STRAIGHTENED. I'LL EVEN DYE MY SCALP.



THERE'S A SHORT FILM ON YOUTUBE WITH YOU IN WHICH YOU APPEAR TO HAVE SEX WITH A HORSE.

YES! AND WE BOTH END UP BEING CUT UP WITH A CHAINSAW. IT'S NOT A SPLATTER VIDEO, IT'S INFLUENCED BY KABUKI THEATER.



WHERE DOES THIS NEVER-ENDING DESIRE FOR PROVOCATION COME FROM?

CONFRONTATION WITH SHAME AND FEAR! I MAKE FUN OF CONVENTIONAL STANDARDS OF BEHAVIOR, OF SEXUAL INTOLERANCE.



HOW IMPORTANT IS HUMOR TO YOU?

VERY IMPORTANT. THERE IS NOTHING MORE ELEGANT IN THE WORLD THAN HUMOR, THAN SOMEONE WHO CAN LAUGH AT THEMSELVES. WE SHOULDN'T TAKE EVERYTHING SO SERIOUSLY.



WHAT IS THE LEAST ECCENTRIC THING ABOUT YOU?

I'M VERY AVERAGE! I WORK A LITTLE, TAKE A NAP, WORK OUT, EAT LUNCH, GO FOR A WALK WITH MY WIFE, AND WATCH TV. AND I DO THAT EVERY DAY. OH, AND I'VE RECENTLY STARTED GOING TO CHURCH. I DON'T GO TO MASS; I'M NOT REALLY CATHOLIC, BUT CHURCHES ARE SO BEAUTIFUL.



WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR IN CHURCH?

MY PARENTS CAME TO EVERY ONE OF MY FASHION SHOWS IN PARIS, AND THEN I WENT TO CHURCH WITH THEM. MY MOTHER PRAYED, AND MY FATHER AND I JUST SAT THERE. SHE BLESSED US BOTH. AND THEN THEY TALKED ABOUT WHO WANTED TO BE BURIED. NOW BOTH OF THEM HAVE PASSED, AND I GO TO CHURCH ALONE. SO, IT'S ALSO A VISIT TO MY PARENTS. I VALUE THE ROLE OF RELIGION IN SOCIETY. IT'S A SYSTEM THAT PEOPLE HAVE CREATED TO BE NICE TO EACH OTHER. I DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD, BUT I DO BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF GOOD.



YOU WANTED YOUR CURRENT MEN'S COLLECTION TO BE UNDERSTOOD AS A REACTION TO "SOME OF THE MOST DISAPPOINTING HUMAN BEHAVIOR WE WILL EXPERIENCE IN OUR TIME." FASHION AS A COMMENTARY ON WAR AND CRISES?

I PRESENT CLOTHING THAT IS SO EXAGGERATED THAT IT FEELS LIKE A PROTEST. WHEN THE NAZIS OCCUPIED FRANCE, THAT FASHION IN PARIS WAS PARTICULARLY EXALTED, ALMOST RIDICULOUS. A REACTION TO THE OCCUPATION, A FORM OF PROTEST. I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT WELL: PRESENTING SOMETHING RIDICULOUS IN TIMES OF GREAT UNEASE.