DECEMBER 2023

WKOREA.COM — THE THIRD MEETING WITH RICK OWENS — DECEMBER 2023 — BY KIM SHIN

W AND RICK OWENS MEET FOR A THIRD TIME DURING OWENS'S VISIT TO SEOUL FOR HIS BOOK SIGNING OF MORE RICK OWENS.

WE MET ONCE IN 2016, ONCE IN 2019, AND NOW IN 2023. I AM GRATEFUL WE’VE MET THROUGH W EVERY TIME YOU’VE VISITED SEOUL. I’D FEEL SOMEWHAT DISAPPOINTED IF YOU DIDN’T CONTACT US WHEN YOU CAME TO SEOUL NOW!

OH, I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE SECOND TIME. IS IT THE THIRD?

YES, I BROUGHT YOU PROOF! IN 2016, WE WENT TO DAPSIMNI ANTIQUE ART MALL, AND IN 2019, YOU HAD A BOOK SIGNING EVENT AT THE DOSAN PARK FLAGSHIP STORE. YOU HAD A 3D-PRINTED MASK THAT RESEMBLED YOUR FACE THEN.

AH, I REMEMBER. THIS IS THE THIRD TIME.

IT'S BEEN 4 YEARS SINCE YOU CAME TO SEOUL; I'M CURIOUS IF THERE'S A SPECIAL REASON WHY YOU WANTED TO MEET AT THE THADDEUS ROPAC GALLERY.

THADDEUS ROPAC IS A CLOSE FRIEND WHO LIVES IN PARIS, BUT I’VE KNOWN HIM SINCE HE WAS LIVING IN AUSTRIA. BUT THE REASON I CAME HERE TODAY IS NOT BECAUSE OF OUR FRIENDSHIP BUT BECAUSE OF THE DONALD JUDD EXHIBITION. HE IS AN ARTIST I REALLY LIKE.

THE EXHIBITIONS OF DONALD JUDD AND JOSEPH BEUYS ARE BEING HELD SIMULTANEOUSLY. DID YOU HAVE A PREFERENCE FOR ONE OF THE ARTISTS WHEN YOU ARRANGED YOUR VISIT?

WHEN IT COMES TO ART, JOSEPH BEUYS IS MY FIRST HERO. WHEN I ENTERED ART SCHOOL IN LOS ANGELES AROUND 1989 OR 1990, I WAS UTTERLY FASCINATED BY HIS ART, WHICH WAS FULL OF UNIQUE ROMANCE, DRAMA, HUMANITY, EMPATHY, MYTH, AND MYSTERY. JOSEPH BEUYS WAS THE FIRST ARTIST TO INFLUENCE ME, AND TO THIS DAY, I STILL CONSIDER HIM THE STANDARD THAT DEFINES AN ARTIST. I FEEL VERY LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO COME TO KOREA AND SEE THE DONALD JUDD AND JOSEPH BEUYS EXHIBITIONS AT THE SAME TIME.

JOSEPH BEUYS ONCE SAID THAT THE ACT OF CONSTANTLY DRAWING IS 'LIKE BREATHING,' AND IS THERE AN 'ACT' THAT IS AS FUNDAMENTALLY IMPORTANT TO YOU AS BREATHING?

PERHAPS HAVING A CLEAR SENSE OF PURPOSE, MEETING DEADLINES, AND MAINTAINING THE RHYTHM OF LIFE. I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE WHAT I WOULD BE LIKE WITHOUT THESE THINGS IN MY LIFE. I DON'T REALLY LIKE WANDERING AROUND AIMLESSLY OR BEING SPONTANEOUS. I PREFER HAVING A CLEAR STARTING AND ENDING POINT. SOMETIMES PEOPLE SAY THAT THEY ENJOY THE PROCESS OF WORKING, BUT I THINK DIFFERENTLY. THE DESTINATION IS MUCH BETTER THAN THE PROCESS.

WHICH OF DONALD JUDD'S WORKS CAUGHT YOUR EYE?

I REALLY LIKE DONALD JUDD'S STACKS, WHICH ARE VISIBLE FROM OUTSIDE THE GALLERY. HOWEVER, I AM NOT A COLLECTOR, NOR AM I A PERSON WHO HAS A NEED FOR POSSESSION, BUT THERE ARE A FEW THINGS I REALLY WANT IN MY LIFE. THIS IS ONE OF THEM; I WOULD LOVE TO OWN AT LEAST ONE OF DONALD JUDD'S STACKS.



WHAT DOES OWNING A WORK OF ART MEAN TO YOU?

IF THERE'S ONE THING I DON'T LIKE ABOUT ART, IT'S THAT IT'S A KIND OF TROPHY. EVEN IF YOU DON'T WANT IT, A WORK OF ART INEVITABLY BECOMES A TROPHY. IT SHOWS THAT THE PERSON WHO OWNS THE ARTWORK IS IN A POSITION TO ENJOY A LIFE THAT PRIORITIZES PLEASURE. BUT IS IT JUST A TROPHY? OR IS IT SOME KIND OF TOTEM? A TOTEM MEANS SOMETHING THAT CONTAINS MAGICAL POWER THAT CAN AFFECT LIFE. SO, A WORK OF ART CAN BE A TROPHY, BUT I THINK IT ALSO HAS A MAGICAL POWER THAT GOES BEYOND THAT, SUCH AS THE POWER OF A TOTEM. OWNING DONALD JUDD'S STACKS WOULD REMIND ME OF THE POWER GAINED FROM COMMITTING TO AESTHETIC REPETITION, CONTINUITY, IMMORTALITY, METHOD, AND ORDER. IT IS LIVING SURROUNDED BY SUCH POTENT MAGIC.

NOW, LEAVING ASIDE THE TOPIC OF ARTWORK, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE UP TO. I WAS SURPRISED TO HEAR THAT YOU WOULD BE VISITING KOREA SHORTLY AFTER SHOWCASING THE WOMEN’S SPRING/SUMMER 2024 SHOW.

I DON'T THINK IT WAS PARTICULARLY BUSY. SHOULD I JUST SAY THAT I HAVE KEPT AT A CERTAIN PACE? AFTER FINISHING THE WOMEN'S RUNWAY TWO WEEKS AGO, I HAD SEVERAL MEETINGS WITH MY TEAM ABOUT THE FOLLOWING COLLECTION. WE ARE CURRENTLY WORKING ON THE NEXT FALL/WINTER COLLECTION. I WAS SPENDING MY TIME COMING UP WITH IDEAS FOR THE UPCOMING FALL COLLECTION AND PLANNING THE SHOW. WE’RE IN THE PROCESS OF DECIDING THE DETAILS: WHERE TO HOLD THE SHOW, HOW TO SET UP THE RUNWAY, WHAT BACKGROUND MUSIC TO USE, WHAT STYLE OF SHOES TO SHOWCASE, WHAT COLLABORATION TO DO, WHAT PROMOTION TO DO IN PARALLEL WITH THE COLLABORATION, ETC. THIS ALL TAKES PLACE IN MY HOME OFFICE IN PARIS. SO, EVERY DAY, I HAVE A FEW MEETINGS IN THE OFFICE, ANSWER EMAILS, AND GO OVER MY TO-DO LIST ON THE OUTDOOR TERRACE UNDER THE SHADE OF THE TREES. AFTERWARDS, I HAVE LUNCH AT ONE OF THE RESTAURANTS WITHIN A BLOCK OF MY HOUSE, AND ON THE WAY BACK, I STOP BY THE CHURCH OF SAINTE CLOTILDE BECAUSE IT REMINDS ME OF MY PARENTS. THIS IS A PLACE I HAVE FOND MEMORIES OF ALWAYS GOING TO WITH MY PARENTS WHEN THEY CAME TO PARIS. THIS YEAR IS THE FIRST YEAR THAT I HAVE BEEN ALONE SINCE BOTH OF MY PARENTS PASSED AWAY. SO, I GO TO THAT CHURCH TO HONOR MY PARENTS AND REMINISCE ABOUT MY TIME WITH THEM. I ALSO LIKE THIS CATHEDRAL BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE AN EXTENSION OF MY HOME. AS YOU MAY KNOW, OUR HOUSE HAS A STRONG CONCRETE FEEL, AND THE GRAY CONCRETE FLOOR, CEILING, AND BEAMS ARE ALL EXPOSED. THE CATHEDRAL SEEMS TO BE ANOTHER VERSION OF THAT. ALTHOUGH IT IS ACTUALLY MADE OF STONE RATHER THAN CONCRETE, THE CATHEDRAL HAS A HUGE VAULTED CEILING AND HAS TRACES OF ITS AGE, SIMILAR TO OUR HOUSE, SO IT FEELS LIKE ANOTHER ROOM IN MY HOUSE. I ALSO EXERCISE EVERY NIGHT SINCE I EAT A LOT OF ICE CREAM AND CHEESEBURGERS.

I THINK MY ROLE IS TO COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATIVE TO VERY STRICT, CONSERVATIVE, AND MORALISTIC VALUES SO THAT THE STANDARDS CAN BE BALANCED.

THE WOMEN’S SS24 SHOW WAS VERY IMPRESSIVE WITH THE SCATTERING OF FLOWER PETALS DURING THE FINALE. IT DOESN’T SEEM LIKE SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE A GREAT CONNECTION TO YOUR BRAND, BUT I WAS CURIOUS IF THERE WAS A SPECIAL REASON BEHIND THE FINALE FEATURING PINK SMOKE AND FLOWER PETALS?

I HAD A VERY VIOLENT AND BOMBASTIC SOUNDTRACK FOR MY MOST RECENT MEN'S SHOW. AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW, MY TASTES ARE A BIT STRONG. SO, THE MEN'S COLLECTION SHOW COULD HAVE LOOKED AGGRESSIVE OR TURN-OF-THE-CENTURY. HOWEVER, WHAT I AM TRYING TO EXPRESS IS NOT ANGER, BUT RATHER JOY. IT IS A KIND OF PASSIONATE JOY. WHENEVER I THINK OF MY SHOW, IT'S THOSE SHOUTS OF JOY THAT COME TO MIND. I DON'T THINK MY SHOWS ARE AGGRESSIVE OR DYSTOPIAN AT ALL. RATHER, IT CAN BE SAID TO BE A LOUD AND POWERFUL ROAR OF JOY. WHILE PREPARING FOR THE WOMEN'S COLLECTION RUNWAY, EVERYONE EXPECTED A STAGE WITH A ROUGH ATMOSPHERE LIKE THE MEN'S COLLECTION SHOW, SO I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE COOL TO CREATE A VERY SOFT AND ROMANTIC CONTRAST. IT ALL STARTS WITH THE MUSIC. USUALLY, I SELECT SONGS THAT ARE ABOUT 3 MINUTES LONG AND THEN EDIT THE MUSIC TO FILL A 15-MINUTE SHOW. WHEN WORKING ON A COLLECTION, I ALSO EXPAND THE MUSIC BY FINDING THE PARTS I LIKE THE MOST AND EXAGGERATING OR HIGHLIGHTING THEM WHILE OMITTING SOME PARTS. ONCE THE MUSIC IS COMPLETE, IT HELPS TO FORM A PERFECT SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP WITH THE RUNWAY AND THE COLLECTION ITSELF. THIS TIME, I CHOSE A SONG BY DIANA ROSS THAT WAS RELEASED IN HER LATEST ALBUM. WE HAD ASKED IF SHE COULD GIVE US RIGHTS TO AN UPBEAT, FUN POP SONG THAT WAS GREAT TO SING ALONG TO, AND FROM THERE, WE TURNED IT INTO A SLOW ANTHEM FOR THE SHOW. HER VOICE GIVES OFF A VERY FRAGILE FEELING BY ISOLATING THE VOCAL PART, LENGTHENING IT, AND STRENGTHENING THE CHORUS ELEMENTS, REMAKING IT INTO A HYMN OF HOPE. DIANA SINGING “I STILL BELIEVE IN LOVE” HAD A STRANGE WAY OF SHAKING PEOPLE’S HEARTS. SO, I THINK HER VOICE, THE PINK HAZE, THE ROSE PETALS, AND MY COLLECTION PAIRED TOGETHER TO CONVEY A ROMANTIC AND SOFT FEELING.

LET’S MOVE ON TO TALKING ABOUT BOOKS. YOU MENTIONED THAT THIS BOOK FEATURES IMAGES FROM THE TIMES WHEN YOU EXPERIMENTED WITH COLORS AND MATERIALS YOU’D NEVER USED BEFORE.

I WASN'T REALLY THINKING ABOUT PUBLISHING ANOTHER BOOK, BUT RIZZOLI HAD REACHED OUT. IT HAD ALREADY BEEN FIVE YEARS SINCE MY LAST BOOK WAS RELEASED, AND DANIELLE LEVITT HAS ALWAYS BEEN TAKING PICTURES OF MY RUNWAY COLLECTIONS. I THOUGHT WE HAD ACCUMULATED ENOUGH. THE FIRST BOOK COVERED 5 YEARS OF MY WORK, AND NOW THAT 5 YEARS HAVE PASSED, I FIGURED IT WAS TIME FOR ANOTHER BOOK. MY MAIN GOAL HAS BEEN TO PUT TOGETHER IMAGES FOR AN ARCHIVAL RECORD. I WANT TO LEAVE A CONTINUOUS RECORD THAT FORMS A COHERENT COLLECTION, SIMILAR TO DONALD JUDD'S STACKS. THE IMAGES OF MY DESIGNS FOLLOW A FAMILIAR AND STANDARDIZED FORMAT WITHIN THE BOOK. SO, THE CLOTHES CAN REALLY STAND OUT UNDER VERY CLEAN LIGHTING; MY AESTHETIC EXPRESSION IS CLEARLY EXPRESSED. I LIKE THAT IT DOCUMENTS MY DESIGNS VERY HONESTLY AND CONSISTENTLY. FEW PEOPLE WORK TO CREATE RECORDS THAT SHOWCASE THEIR WORK LIKE THIS AND IN THIS STRUCTURED FORMAT. TIME WAS ALSO CAPTURED IN A VERY UNIQUE WAY. WOULD IT BE SAID THAT THE PRODUCTION PERIOD FOR EACH WORK BECOMES MEANINGLESS, AND THE COLLECTION BECOMES ONE LARGE WORK OF ART? ALTHOUGH I SAID IT WAS ‘ART,’ I DON’T KNOW IF PEOPLE CONSIDER MY DESIGNS ART. RATHER, IT SEEMS SAFE TO SAY THAT DANIELLE’S RECORDED WORK OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS IS A WORK OF ART. I MIGHT BE ABLE TO REFLECT ON MY WORK 10 OR 20 YEARS FROM NOW AND DRAW A NARRATIVE OF MY CHANGE AND DEVELOPMENT. HOWEVER, AT THIS MOMENT, IT ISN'T EASY TO SEE THE LARGER FLOW BECAUSE WE ARE SO CLOSE TO THE ONGOING TIME. ALL I CAN SEE RIGHT NOW IS THAT I'M MOVING FORWARD AND WHAT I NEED TO DO NEXT. IT SEEMS DIFFICULT TO CONCENTRATE BEYOND THAT. THERE WILL COME A DAY IN THE DISTANT FUTURE WHEN I WILL BE ABLE TO ANALYZE ALL THE PHOTOS IN THIS BOOK AND UNDERSTAND THEIR MEANING. BUT RIGHT NOW, I HAVE NO IDEA.

WHAT DOES MEETING FANS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD MEAN TO YOU? IT'S NOT AN EASY TASK, IS IT? WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO ACHIEVE THROUGH THIS?

TRAVELING AROUND THE WORLD AND MEETING PEOPLE IS SO MUCH FUN! FOR THIS TRIP, I’M HOLDING BOOK SIGNING EVENTS IN KOREA AND JAPAN, AND I MAY DO ONE MORE WHEN I RETURN TO PARIS. HOLDING EVENTS LIKE THESE MEANS A LOT; I WANT TO EXPRESS MY GRATITUDE TO THOSE WHO HAVE SHOWN INTEREST IN AND SUPPORTED MY WORK. IT'S FUN TO MEET EACH OTHER, AND THE FEELING OF HEARING THE WARM HEARTS OF THOSE WHO VISIT IS INDESCRIBABLE. I FEEL LIKE IT'S MY DUTY TO SAVOR AND APPRECIATE THESE MOMENTS.

WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO IN THIS BOOK?

WHEN DESIGNING, I AIM TO OFFER ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS TO THE STANDARD. BEAUTY STANDARDS THAT ARE CULTURALLY ACCEPTED CAN BE TOO STRICT OR EVEN CRUEL AT TIMES, AND MANY PEOPLE FEEL EXCLUDED FROM MAINSTREAM BEAUTY STANDARDS. FOR INSTANCE, AIRPORT BEAUTY SECTIONS TEND TO CATER ONLY TO A PARTICULAR PRIVILEGED GROUP OF PEOPLE WHOSE VALUES AND ASPIRATIONS ARE PREDETERMINED BY THEIR SOCIAL STATUS AND UNREALISTIC STANDARDS OF BEAUTY. I WANTED TO PRESENT AN ALTERNATIVE THAT COULD RESONATE WITH A WIDER AUDIENCE. I DON'T INTEND TO CRITICIZE BEAUTY, BUT I BELIEVE THAT BEAUTY STANDARDS CAN BE SOMEWHAT RIGID. THEREFORE, I SEE IT AS MY MISSION TO COME UP WITH ALTERNATIVES TO STRICT, CONSERVATIVE, AND MORALISTIC VALUES AND CREATE A MORE BALANCED STANDARD OF BEAUTY.

THIS IS A PERSONAL QUESTION, BUT WHETHER YOU MEANT IT OR NOT, MANY PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE A COOL 'ADULT.' SO, I WANT TO ASK. WHAT DO YOU THINK A COOL ADULT IS?

I THINK A GOOD EXAMPLE OF A COOL ADULT IS MICHÈLE. I DON'T THINK I THINK OF MYSELF AS AN ADULT. OCCASIONALLY, I TAKE THE SUBWAY AND LOOK AT OTHERS AROUND ME. SOMETIMES, I NOTICE A MAN IN A SUIT JACKET, BUTTONED-UP SHIRT, AND LOAFERS WHO LOOKS LIKE AN OLD PROFESSOR. HE HAS GRAY HAIR, A BALD FOREHEAD, AND A BUSHY BEARD. I WONDER IF HE'S MY AGE IF HE WAS BORN IN THE 60S, AND IF HE EXPERIENCED THE ERA OF RADICAL FREEDOM IN THE 70S. HOWEVER, HE APPEARS TO BE A VERY CONSERVATIVE OLD GENTLEMAN, DESPITE BEING SOMEONE WHO MIGHT HAVE TAKEN DRUGS AND GONE TO 'FEAR' CONCERTS IN HIS YOUNGER DAYS. IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE THAT HE HAD SUCH EXPERIENCES WHEN HE LOOKS ORDINARY AT HIS AGE. IN CONTRAST, I OPENLY SHARE MY EXPERIENCES AND INTERESTS. I THINK THE KIND OF ADULT WHO PERCEIVES ME AS "COOL" IS THE ONE WHO VALUES THESE QUALITIES.

WHETHER IT WAS 10 YEARS AGO WHEN I FIRST INTERVIEWED YOU OR NOW, I AM ALWAYS NERVOUS ABOUT MOMENTS LIKE THIS BECAUSE YOU ARE AN IDOL IN MY HEART, DO YOU STILL HAVE MOMENTS IN YOUR LIFE WHERE YOU FEEL NERVOUS OR AFRAID?

ONE SITUATION IS PARTICULARLY CHALLENGING FOR ME TO HANDLE - WHEN I FEEL THAT THE PERSON I LOVE DOESN'T SHOW ME RESPECT OR CARE FOR ME. OTHER THAN THAT, I MUST ADMIT THAT I CAN BE A BIT SELFISH AT TIMES. I SOMETIMES FEEL FRUSTRATED WHEN I DON'T GET WHAT I WANT OR WHEN PEOPLE DON'T RESPOND AS QUICKLY OR THOROUGHLY AS I'D LIKE THEM TO. HOWEVER, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT I GET EXTREMELY UPSET. IT'S JUST THAT I TAKE MY JOB RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY AND EXPECT OTHERS TO DO THEIR PART AS WELL. WHEN THERE IS NO PROGRESS, IT CAN BE FRUSTRATING. BUT I ALSO REALIZE THAT NOT EVERYONE IS AS MOTIVATED OR DRIVEN AS I AM. IN CONCLUSION, I AM NOT EASILY ANXIOUS OR NERVOUS, BUT I DO HAVE MY MOMENTS OF FRUSTRATION.

AWESOME, I’D LOVE TO LIVE WITHOUT THAT FEAR. THIS IS MY LAST QUESTION. NEXT TIME YOU COME TO SEOUL AGAIN, IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO DO? W WILL BE WELL PREPARED.

OF COURSE, I WILL VISIT KOREA AGAIN. I DON'T HAVE ANY SPECIFIC PLANS YET, BUT I AM SURE I WILL VISIT AGAIN. I HAVE ALWAYS REGRETTED NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE MORE TEMPLES AND PALACES IN KOREA. I AM VERY INTERESTED IN OLD SEOUL. IT’S DISAPPOINTING SINCE I’VE ONLY HAD THE CHANCE TO SEE THE MODERN SIDE OF SEOUL. NEXT TIME I COME, I HOPE WE CAN MEET IN A PLACE THAT STILL RETAINS THE OLD DAYS OF SEOUL.