DECEMBER 2023

SWITCH — THE PROPORTION OF SPACE AND TIME — DECEMBER 2023 — BY KLEINSTEIN (YUSUKE & MIKI KOISHI）

ON OCTOBER 18TH, 2023, UNDER A CLEAR BLUE SKY, THE PANORAMIC SEASCAPE OF SAGAMI BAY UNFOLDED BEFORE ENOURA OBSERVATORY. HIGH ABOVE, A LARGE BIRD, POSSIBLY A KITE OR A HAWK, SOARED GRACEFULLY AS IF TO WELCOME RICK OWENS AND MICHÈLE LAMY ON THEIR FIRST VISIT TO JAPAN IN 20 YEARS.

BEFORE THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC, IN THE FALL OF 2019, HIROSHI SUGIMOTO'S DIRECTED THE BALLET "AT THE HAWK'S WELL", WHICH ACHIEVED GREAT SUCCESS AT THE PARIS OPERA HOUSE. HERE, YEARS AFTER THAT COLLABORATION, THE REUNION TOOK PLACE BETWEEN RICK OWENS, WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE COSTUMES, HAIR, AND MAKEUP; RYOJI IKEDA, WHO TOOK CHARGE OF THE MUSIC AND SPATIAL DIRECTION; AND HIROSHI SUGIMOTO, THE FOUNDER OF ENOURA OBSERVATORY.

AMIDST THE ENOURA OBSERVATORY, WHERE THE STONE STAGE INTERTWINES WITH THE OPTICAL GLASS STAGE, BESIDE THE WELL, AND ALONG THE TUNNEL'S WHISPER, THEIR DIALOGUE COMMENCED—A JOURNEY THAT EFFORTLESSLY SOARED BEYOND THE CONFINES OF FASHION AND ART, EMBRACED BY ENOURA'S SERENE NATURE. THEIR DISCOURSE NATURALLY VENTURED INTO PROFOUND PHILOSOPHICAL TERRAINS BY ECHOING THE THEMES OF THE OPERA HOUSE'S DANCE DRAMA, MUSINGS ON LIFE AND DEATH, AND MEMENTO MORI, SPACE, AND TIME. THIS CONVERSATION WAS CAPTURED IN A CAVERN'S EMBRACE, WITHIN THE TUNNEL — A REALM OF INTROSPECTION AND RESONANCE.

FIRSTLY, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK ABOUT YOUR NEW VISUAL BOOK "MORE RICK OWENS BY DANIELLE LEVITT" PUBLISHED BY RIZZOLI. YOUR COLLABORATION WITH DANIELLE BEGAN IN 2014. WHAT DO YOU FIND SPECIAL ABOUT YOUR OWN WORK IN THE PHOTOGRAPHY BY DANIELLE?

RICK OWENS (REFERRED TO AS HEREAFTER RICK): WELL, OUR COLLECTION IS AN EVOLUTION OF THE COLLECTION BEFORE IT. SO I WILL STUDY IMAGERY AND DECIDE WHAT I NEED TO DO NEXT IN RELATION TO THAT. I'M SURE THAT THERE IS SOMETHING SUBLIMINAL WHEN I LOOK AT THE WORKS. SHE SHOWS MY WORK IN A DYNAMIC WAY; IT'S NOT OVERTLY SEXUALIZED OR OVERTLY MELODRAMATIZED. THERE IS A LIFE TO IT. THAT IS WHAT I EXPECT FROM DANIELLE'S WORK, WHICH MAKES ME FEEL LIKE IT’S IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT. IT PUTS ME IN THE RIGHT MOOD TO MOVE FORWARD.

IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE YOUR LAST VISIT TO JAPAN. WHAT BROUGHT YOU TO ENOURA OBSERVATORY THIS TIME?

RICK: WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HERE IN JAPAN TO DO A BOOK SIGNING OF MY NEW RIZZOLI BOOK. THE OTHER TIME I WAS HERE WAS 20 YEARS AGO. IT WAS TIME TO COME BACK AND SAY HELLO TO MY JAPANESE FRIENDS. MICHÈLE AND I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO VISIT ENOURA OBSERVATORY SINCE WE HAVE NEVER BEEN HERE. WE DECIDED TO STAY WITH OUR FRIENDS RYOJI AND HIROSHI. NOW THAT WE ARE, WE’RE OVERWHELMED. IT IS SO BEAUTIFUL.

HIROSHI SUGIMOTO (REFERRED TO AS "HIROSHI" HEREAFTER): WHAT I SHOWED RICK EARLIER WAS ONLY HALF OF IT. ACTUALLY, IF YOU GO FURTHER DOWN FROM HERE, THERE'S ANOTHER HALF. THERE IS A "FOSSIL CAVE" WHERE I DISPLAY MY FOSSIL COLLECTION. IT HAS TRILOBITES, AMMONITES, AND OTHER THINGS FROM OVER 200 MILLION YEARS AGO. IF YOU LIKE, I CAN GIVE YOU A TOUR THERE AFTER THIS.

RICK: I'D LOVE TO GO, SERIOUSLY. ANYWAY, MICHÈLE AND I WERE REALLY HAPPY TO HAVE A BEAUTIFUL DAY. I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THE SOUND IN THIS CAVE, AND I LOVE THE STONES HERE. THERE ARE SO MANY STONES THAT WE LOVE, AND THERE ARE ALSO CAVES AND TUNNELS. I LOVE IT.

HIROSHI: I LOVE STONES. WE ALL LOVE STONES. YOU COULD SAY STONE FETISHIST (LAUGHS). WHEN I WAS BUILDING ENOURA OBSERVATORY, I COLLECTED STONES FROM VARIOUS PLACES. THERE ARE STONES THAT ARE OVER 1,000 YEARS OLD. STONES FROM THE TENPYO ERA, STONES FROM THE ASUKA ERA, STONES THAT WERE USED IN THE EDO CASTLE OF TOKYO, STONES USED IN OLD FRENCH STAIRCASES, AND MANY MORE. IT WAS A STRANGE FATE, OR PERHAPS I SHOULD SAY KARMA. STONES GATHERED AROUND ME.

RICK: YOU ARE A TRUE STONE FETISHIST (LAUGHS). IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE ETERNAL. WE ALL FEEL THE CONNECTION, OR WE WANT TO FEEL THE CONNECTION OR ENJOY THE CONNECTION WITH THE ETERNAL.

HIROSHI: YEAH, THE STONE IS THE LEAST CHANGING MATERIAL OVER TIME. I MEAN, OUR SOCIETY - HUMAN LIFE IS SO SHORT AND FRAGILE. I WANTED TO USE THESE STONES FOR MY SPACE. I WANTED THIS OBSERVATORY MADE OF STONES TO BECOME A RUIN A THOUSAND OR MAYBE FIVE THOUSAND YEARS LATER. HOPEFULLY LIKE THE EGYPTIAN PIECES (LAUGHS).

SPEAKING OF EGYPT, ACCORDING TO HIROSHI’S AUTOBIOGRAPHY "KAGEROU NIKKI (DIARY OF AN OLD MAN IN THE SHADOWS)" (2022), YOU HAVE BEEN ACTIVE AS AN ANTIQUE ART DEALER SINCE 1979 AND LATER BECAME A COLLECTOR. ON THE OTHER HAND, RICK ALSO HAS BEEN COLLECTING ART PIECES. IN A YOUTUBE VIDEO, YOU ALSO SHOWED A DARK-COLORED EGYPTIAN STONE SARCOPHAGUS IN YOUR CONCORDIA HOUSE IN ITALY.

RICK: YES. I HAVE A SARCOPHAGUS IN MY HOUSE. I ALSO HAVE A HUMAN SKULL IN MY CONCORDIA HOUSE, IN THE LIDO HOUSE, AND I HAVE A HUMAN SKULL IN PARIS.

HIROSHI: I DO OWN A SMALL MUMMY OF A CAT. IT'S A MUMMY ENCLOSED IN A COFFIN, AND THERE'S A PORTRAIT OF A CAT ON IT. IT'S A SMALL AND BEAUTIFUL CAT.

RICK: WOW, GREAT. SOMEBODY ONCE ASKED ME, “HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH REMINDERS OF DEATH LIKE THAT AROUND YOU?” AND I SAID, “HOW CAN YOU NOT BE AWARE OF YOURSELF IN THE FACE OF THAT? IT MAKES YOUR OWN INSECURITIES INSIGNIFICANT.” THESE PIECES ARE JUST A REMINDER THAT LIFE IS VERY SHORT, AND THEN ONE DAY, MY SKULL WILL BE ON SOMEBODY ELSE'S DESK, WHICH IS FINE WITH ME. IT'S THE CYCLE OF LIFE.

HIROSHI: I LIKE IT.

RICK: BUT IT'S ALSO KIND OF… YOU KNOW, MY MOTHER DIED LAST YEAR, AND SHE HAD CANCER THAT CAUSED SO MUCH PAIN. IT WAS SHOCKING HOW MUCH PAIN SHE HAD ENDURED, AND I THOUGHT THAT THERE WERE ENOUGH DRUGS INVENTED TO ELIMINATE ANY PROBLEMS BUT THERE WEREN'T. DOCTORS GAVE HER OPIATES, THEY GAVE HER OXYCODONE, ALL OF THESE DRUGS ON TOP OF EACH OTHER, AND SHE WAS COMPLETELY LUCID, BUT SHE WAS STILL VERY UNCOMFORTABLE, AND I WAS SHOCKED. IT ALSO MADE ME REALIZE THAT THERE ARE ALL THESE CRUCIFIXES DISPLAYED IN PEOPLE'S HOUSES IN MEXICO, AND I ALWAYS ASSUMED THAT IT WAS JUST A REMINDER OF SPIRITUALITY, BUT I THINK IT ACTUALLY SERVES A VERY PRACTICAL PURPOSE. I THINK IT IS TO REMIND EVERYBODY THAT SUFFERING IS INEVITABLE. I THINK IT WAS SEEING SOMEBODY SUFFERING ON A CLOCK CROSS EVERY DAY, I THINK IT WAS JUST A DEVICE TO MAKE PEOPLE USED TO THE IDEA THAT SUFFERING IS GOING TO BE THERE. IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. YOU JUST HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT. I DON'T KNOW IF IT HAS TO DO WITH ROCKS OR… OH, SKULLS! THAT’S A REMINDER OF OUR POSITION ON EARTH, WHICH IS NOT THAT POWERFUL.

IN 2019, HIROSHI DIRECTED AN UNCONVENTIONAL DRAMA AT THE PARIS OPERA TITLED "AT THE HAWK’S WELL.", WHICH IS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS IN 1916. HIROSHI INVITED RYOJI TO BE THE SOUND ARCHITECT AND RICK TO BE THE COSTUME DESIGNER. COINCIDENTALLY, THIS PIECE EXPLORED THE THEME OF "MEMENTO MORI." THE NARRATIVE REVOLVES AROUND AN ELDERLY MAN PATIENTLY WAITING FOR THE IMMORTAL WATER TO EMERGE FROM A WELL. SIMULTANEOUSLY, A YOUNG MAN, DRIVEN BY THE SAME DESIRE FOR IMMORTALITY, AND A HAWK SPIRIT GUARDING THE WELL BECOME CENTRAL FIGURES IN THE STORY. HOW DID THE THREE OF YOU MEET, AND HOW DID YOU COME TO WORK TOGETHER FOR THIS OPERA?

RICK: WHICH WAS OUR FIRST TIME TOGETHER? I CAN'T REMEMBER.

RYOJI IKEDA (REFERRED TO AS "RYOJI" HEREAFTER): ME NEITHER. BUT, ANYWAY, I GOT CONTACTED BY YOU, NOT BY YOUR TEAM. YOU.

RICK: YEAH. I DON'T HAVE PEOPLE FROM MY TEAM CONTACT PEOPLE. I ALWAYS DO IT MYSELF. I NEVER UNDERSTOOD THAT THING OF HAVING MY SECRETARY CALL YOUR SECRETARY, CALL YOUR PRESS OFFICE. I ALWAYS JUST EMAIL PEOPLE MYSELF, AND I ALWAYS STAY DIRECT TO WHOEVER IT IS. SO I KNOW THAT I HAD TO CONTACT YOU DIRECTLY.

RYOJI: YEAH, RIGHT. IN PARIS, I HAD A FACE-TO-FACE WITH YOU AND MICHÈLE. I HAVE HAD MANY REQUESTS AND OFFERS FROM OTHER FASHION BRANDS, BUT I COULD NOT REACH THE DESIGNERS DIRECTLY EVERY TIME. I FOUND THAT THEY JUST WANTED TO USE ME. SO, I KEPT SAYING NO TO EVERY OFFER. EXCEPT THIS GUY! YOU, RICK. THAT WAS A GREAT ENCOUNTER INDEED. RICK, IF YOU REMEMBER ME, HONESTLY, I DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT FASHION BACK THEN. I KNEW RICK ONLY BY NAME BUT DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT YOU. BUT YEAH, THEN WE WORKED ON A LOT OF PROJECTS, AND WE'RE GOING TO DO THE SAME THING IN TOKYO TOMORROW.

RICK: IT WAS GREAT TO MEET YOU. YOU ARE SUPER EASY TOO. YOU'RE VERY ORGANIZED. I LOVE THAT. SO MANY PEOPLE AREN'T ORGANIZED.

THEN, WHEN MR. SUGIMOTO ASKED YOU TO DO "AT THE HAWK'S WELL," YOU INTRODUCED HIM TO RICK.

RYOJI: I FELT A SHARED CONTEXT BETWEEN RICK AND HIROSHI. THE COSTUMES OBVIOUSLY HAD TO BE CREATED BY YOU IN MY MIND. I ALSO INTRODUCED HIM TO ALESSIO SILVESTRIN, A CHOREOGRAPHER WELL-VERSED IN JAPANESE NOH TOO. RICK, I WANTED TO SEE HOW YOU'D CONNECT WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE PARIS OPERA HOUSE, PARTICULARLY WITH ITS COSTUME DEPARTMENT, WHICH HAS ITS OWN HERITAGE AND HISTORICAL CONTEXT. IT'S QUITE DIFFERENT FROM THE CONTEXT OF FASHION. AS A RESULT, SOMETHING TRULY AMAZING EMERGED.

HIROSHI: WE CREATED SOMETHING TRULY NON-TRIVIAL.

RICK: IT WAS FANTASTIC. FOR ME, IT WAS A UNIQUE AND DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE.

IT'S QUITE FATEFUL THAT THE TWO OF YOU, BOTH CONSCIOUS OF MEMENTO MORI, CROSSED PATHS. THE AUDIENCE WHO WITNESSED IT WAS INDEED LUCKY, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT WAS DONE RIGHT BEFORE THE CORONA PANDEMIC. WHAT DID YOU DO DURING THE PANDEMIC?"

RYOJI: IT WAS FORTUNATE. IT WAS REALLY LAST MINUTE BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

SUGIMOTO: YES, INDEED. HONESTLY, I ENJOYED THE PANDEMIC. IT'S QUITE A HUMAN THING, QUITE HUMAN. NO ONE CALLED ME. I FOUND A MOMENT OF SILENCE. ACTUALLY, I HAD A CHANCE TO STUDY CALLIGRAPHY AND TAUGHT MYSELF DURING THE PANDEMIC. AS YOU SEE, SOME OF MY WORKS ARE HERE. I CARVED THEM ON THE STONE MONUMENTS.

RYOJI: I REALLY LIKE YOUR "HETA-UMA (SO-AMATEURISH-IT'S-GOOD)" CALLIGRAPHY (LAUGHS).

RICK: HAHA. THAT’S VERY GOOD INDEED. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT CALLIGRAPHY VERY MUCH. FOR ME, THE PANDEMIC WAS A GOOD TIME TO LEARN FRENCH OR ITALIAN, BUT I DIDN'T. INSTEAD, I WENT TO MY LIBRARY. IT WAS A PERIOD WHERE MICHÈLE AND I WOULD LAY UNDER OUR TREES ON OUR TERRACE, AND WE JUST READ ALL THE BOOKS THAT WE HAD BEEN COLLECTING AND PLANNING TO READ BUT JUST NEVER DID. AND THIS TIME, I THOUGHT IT WAS A TIME TO STUDY TO ABSORB INFORMATION UNTIL WE WERE READY TO GO OUT AND PARTICIPATE IN THE WORLD AGAIN. IT WAS STUNNING, I THINK, BUT THEN AS SOON AS WE COULD, I WENT BACK TO THE FACTORY IN CONCORDIA BECAUSE THAT WAS OUR SURVIVAL, OUR CENTER OF SURVIVAL, AND IT WAS GREAT TO HAVE EVERYONE THERE. OUR TEAM WAS UNITED, AND WE HAD TO RECALIBRATE OUR BUSINESS SINCE THINGS HAD CHANGED, AND WE HAD CHANGED TOO. WE DECIDED TO DO RUNWAY SHOWS AS SOON AS WE COULD, AND WE DID THEM WITHOUT AN AUDIENCE IN VENICE. WE DID OUR VERY BEST IN THE FACE OF UNCERTAINTY. WE HAD TO SHOW OUR RESISTANCE AND PRESENT THE VERY BEST WE COULD UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. FURTHERMORE, IT WAS ALSO A CHANCE TO TRY WORKING IN A DIFFERENT WAY, WHICH WAS VERY BONDING, AND OUR GROUP UNITED IN SUCH A BEAUTIFUL WAY, IT WAS A GREAT EXPERIENCE.

EXPLORED BY MR. SUGIMOTO, THE ENOURA OBSERVATORY WAS CONSTRUCTED USING TRADITIONAL, ANCIENT JAPANESE ARCHITECTURAL TECHNIQUES, WHICH ARE BECOMING INCREASINGLY RARE AND OBSOLETE. SPEAKING OF ARTISANS, RICK OWENS ALSO HAS BEEN WORKING WITH JAPANESE ARTISANS. HOW DO YOU PERCEIVE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ITALIAN ARTISANS AND JAPANESE ARTISANS? DID YOU FIND THEM BY YOURSELF?

RICK: YES. WE ACTUALLY HAVE A DENIM CAPSULE THAT IS MADE JUST IN JAPAN. IF I WERE TO LOOK FOR THEM JUST BY MYSELF, IT WOULD TAKE A MILLION YEARS (LAUGHS). BUT, WE HAVE INQUIRED, AND WE HAVE FRIENDS THAT HAVE LOOKED FOR US. SO YEAH WE HAVE SOME FRIENDS HERE AND THEY FIGURED IT OUT FOR US. IF I DID IT BY MYSELF, IT WOULD TAKE MILLION YEARS (LAUGH). ITALIAN CRAFTSMANSHIP IS MORE OPERATIC. JAPANESE CRAFTSMANSHIP IS MORE EXQUISITE.

HIROSHI: (LAUGH)

I HEARD THAT YOUR FATHER ALSO HAS A CONNECTION TO JAPAN.

HIROSHI: OH, REALLY?

RICK: YES. I FORGOT ALL THE DETAILS, BUT HE WAS A MAIL CARRIER ON A US BASE IN JAPAN AT THE TIME, AND HE WAS VERY ENAMORED WITH THE CULTURE. HE WAS ACTUALLY A VERY CONSERVATIVE, VERY STRICT, MORALISTIC MAN, BUT I REMEMBER THAT IN HIS CLOSET, HE HAD AN OLD TRUNK FULL OF KIMONOS, CALLIGRAPHIC SCROLLS, INCENSE, AND PICTURES OF HIM WEARING KIMONO WITH BEAUTIFUL GIRLS THAT HE DATED IN JAPAN (LAUGH). HE HAD ALSO COLLECTED BOOKS OF JAPANESE WATERCOLORS, OLD, OLD ONES. THERE WERE NO EXAMPLES OF THAT KIND OF ART IN OUR WORLD OTHER THAN HIS BOOKS. BECAUSE MY FAMILY LIVED IN A CONSERVATIVE AMERICAN TOWN THAT DIDN'T REALLY HAVE AN ART CULTURE, THOSE BOOKS IN HIS BASEMENT WERE FROM ANOTHER PLANET TO ME. FROM ANOTHER PLANET. SO THAT MADE THEM VERY SUPERNATURAL.

I THINK WHAT ALL THREE OF US HERE HAVE IN COMMON IS THAT WE ARE ALL INDEPENDENTS. NOWADAYS, IT FREQUENTLY HAPPENS THAT A DESIGNER BECOMES THE CREATIVE DIRECTOR OF A BIG FASHION HOUSE OR A BRAND IS ACQUIRED BY BIG CONGLOMERATES. I BELIEVE INDEPENDENCE HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT RICK OWENS IS ABLE TO UPDATE THE STRONG ENCHANTING AMBIANCE WITHOUT CHANGING IT AROUND. WHAT DO RICK AND SUGIMOTO-SAN THINK ABOUT BEING INDEPENDENT?

RICK: WELL, ANYBODY WOULD WANT TO BE INDEPENDENT IF THEY COULD AND I HAD THE FORTUNE TO MEET MICHÈLE. I WAS FORTUNATE TO HAVE VERY TALENTED PARTNERS WHO ARE MORE TALENTED THAN I AM AT PROTECTING THE INTEGRITY OF A GOOD BUSINESS, HONESTLY AND WITH A PURE SPIRIT. WE WERE ABLE TO GROW VERY NATURALLY AND ORGANICALLY FROM VERY SMALL AND TAKE OUT WHAT I DID WITHOUT EXPLOITING IT AND PROTECTING IT AS CAREFULLY AS I DID. SO THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN. THAT'S A MIRACLE. THAT'S LIKE A MIRACLE MARRIAGE.

MICHÈLE: (FROM THE TOP OF THE CAVE) HEY. YOU SHOULD COME UP HERE.

RICK: HAHAHA. SO, MY INDEPENDENCE CAN'T HAPPEN TO EVERYBODY. OH YEAH. SO IT'S JUST LUCK.

HIROSHI WELL, INDEPENDENCE…ACTUALLY, MY FIRST CAREER WAS AS A FASHION PHOTOGRAPHER'S ASSISTANT, BACK IN THE EARLY 1970S WHEN, AFTER GRADUATING FROM L.A. PHOTOGRAPHY SCHOOL. HOWEVER, I WAS SO SICK OF BEING CONTROLLED BY OTHERS AND WORKING FOR SOMEONE ELSE, SO I QUICKLY QUIT – IN JUST TWO MONTHS (LAUGHS). AROUND THAT TIME IN 1974, I ENCOUNTERED A WORK BY DONALD JUDD IN THE CITY. IT WAS A PIECE WITH NUMEROUS VENEER BOARDS MOUNTED ON A WALL. SEEING THAT, I WAS OVERWHELMED, THEN THOUGHT TO MYSELF, "YES, I SHOULD TRY LIVING IN THIS WORLD IN MY OWN WAY." THEN BECAME AN ARTIST. LATER ON, IN 1979, I BEGAN COLLECTING JAPANESE ART PIECES AND, ALONGSIDE MY OWN ARTISTIC WORK, I STARTED A STORE IN NEW YORK CALLED "MINGEI" IN SOHO WHERE I SOLD JAPANESE FOLK CRAFTS. I COLLECTED BUDDHIST ART AND GRADUALLY BEGAN TO GATHER ITEMS RELATED TO SHINTO. INITIALLY, I SOURCED ITEMS FOR CLIENTS, BUT NOW I COLLECT FOR MYSELF.

YOU VENTURED INTO THE REALM OF ARCHITECTURE WITH THE 2002 PROJECT OF REBUILDING THE GO'O SHRINE ON NAOSHIMA AND HAVE BEEN DOING COMMISSIONED WORKS AS WELL, HAVEN'T YOU?

HIROSHI: THAT PROJECT LED TO OFFERS FOR ARCHITECTURAL WORKS, AND THAT'S HOW I STARTED TAKING ON COMMISSIONED JOBS. IN 2008, I ESTABLISHED “SHINSOKEN - NEW MATERIAL RESEARCH LABORATORY.” DESPITE ITS NAME, IT EXAMINES NOT ONLY COMMON MATERIALS AND TECHNIQUES IN CONTEMPORARY ARCHITECTURE BUT ALSO THOSE FROM ANCIENT AND MEDIEVAL TIMES IN ORDER TO PRESERVE AND TRANSFER ALMOST-FORGOTTEN, OBSOLETE TECHNIQUES, IMPROVING UPON THEM.

LOOKING BACK AT MY CAREER, IF I WERE TO SUM UP THE COMMONALITY IN MY WORK IN ONE WORD, IT WOULD BE A “SENSE OF SPACE.” THIS IS CRUCIAL FOR ME. IN TERMS OF PHOTOGRAPHY, IT RELATES TO COMPOSITION, TIME, SPACE, AND THE SENSE OF LIGHT AND SHADOW. THE CONSISTENT FACTOR ACROSS ALL MY PROJECTS IS WORKING WITH THIS SENSE. WELL, WHEN IT COMES TO COMMISSIONED WORKS, I ALWAYS OVERLY INVEST, SO I END UP USING UP THE ENTIRE FEE. THERE'S HARDLY ANY PROFIT. IT'S LIKE A LOSS ON TOP OF A MINUS (LAUGHS).

ALL: (LAUGH)

HIROSHI: INDEED, VENTURING INTO ARCHITECTURE HAS BEEN BOTH REWARDING AND A GREAT LEARNING EXPERIENCE. MY BACKGROUND AS AN ART DEALER AND AN ARCHITECT GAVE ME THE FOUNDATION TO REALIZE THIS ENOURA OBSERVATORY. IT'S TRULY FULFILLING TO SIT HERE WITH FRIENDS ATOP THESE STONES I LOVE. IF I CAN CONTINUE TO EXPLORE AND LEARN, ESPECIALLY IF SOMEONE ELSE IS FOOTING THE BILL, IT'S A WONDERFUL JOURNEY (LAUGHS). RICK, YOU'VE BEEN CRAFTING FURNITURE AS WELL, HAVEN'T YOU?

RICK: YEAH. BUT I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHEN I STARTED (LAUGH.)


THERE SEEMS TO BE A COMMON THREAD BETWEEN YOU TWO – A COMMITMENT TO HANDS-ON CREATIVITY. HIROSHI, YOU’RE NOT JUST INTO PHOTOGRAPHY, BUT YOU IMMERSE YOURSELF IN CARPENTRY, CURATING EXHIBITION CONTENT, AND HAVE PENNED NUMEROUS BOOKS. RICK, ASIDE FROM DESIGNING, YOU’RE ALSO DEEPLY INVOLVED IN PATTERN-CUTTING AND EVEN DRAFTING YOUR OWN COLLECTION NOTES AND PRESS RELEASES. IT’S A COMMENDABLE DEDICATION TO YOUR CRAFT.

RICK: THAT'S A BIG ASSET FOR US. THERE'S NOWHERE ELSE WHERE THEY DO THAT. THERE ARE NO OTHER HOUSES WHERE THE DESIGNER IS ALLOWED TO WRITE WHAT THEY WANT TO LIKE ME. MOST OF THEM HAVE TOO MANY PEOPLE SUPERVISING OR TELLING THEM WHAT TO SAY. SO FOR ME, THAT IS A HUGELY INDEPENDENT THING TO BE ABLE TO DO.

YOU ARE ALWAYS TALKING BY YOURSELF, AND YOU ALSO POST VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE.

FASHION IS COMMUNICATION. SO OBVIOUSLY, WHEN YOU ARE MAKING FASHION, YOU ARE MAKING THINGS FOR PEOPLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER. ANY CHANCE I HAVE TO COMMUNICATE AND TO CLARIFY WHAT I'M DOING, I TAKE IT. I KNOW THAT SOME PEOPLE DISCOURAGED ME FROM DOING THAT VIDEO SHOWING THE INTERIOR OF MY HOUSE IN CONCORDIA. THEY WERE SAYING, “WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING SO VULGAR AS JUST DISPLAYING WHAT YOU HAVE.” AND I SAID, “YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S A WAY OF DOING IT THAT IS SOFT AND GENTLE AND POSITIVE AND CAN PROMOTE OUR VALUES.” I KNOW THAT CONTENT IS SOMETHING I WOULD WANT TO SEE IF I WAS LOOKING ON THE INTERNET. SO I WANT TO PROVIDE THAT. I WANTED TO MAKE SOMETHING I’D WANT TO SEE. SO I FELT LIKE IT WAS A NICE CONTRAST TO PEOPLE SHOWING OFF THEIR…. I DON’T KNOW…THEIR ROLLS-ROYCE AND ALL OF THEIR WATCH COLLECTIONS AND STUFF. BUT WHAT I'VE ALWAYS TRIED TO PROMOTE IS THAT THE WORLD CAN HAVE A VERY STRICT SET OF STANDARDS WHEN IT COMES TO AESTHETICS AND BEAUTY. IF I CAN PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE TO THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M HERE FOR. BECAUSE THERE'S A SENSE OF BIGOTRY IN THE WAY THAT BEAUTY AND A CERTAIN SET OF VALUES ARE PRESENTED. BIGOTRY. THAT IS PRESENTED AS THE ONLY VALID OPTION. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY HERE ARE SOME OTHER OPTIONS THAT MIGHT INTEREST YOU SO THAT PEOPLE WHO DON'T SEE THEMSELVES REFLECTED IN THAT STANDARD SET OF VALUES CAN HAVE ANOTHER OPTION. THAT IS WHAT I’M HERE TO DO.

I BELIEVE IT'S THAT TRANSPARENCY THAT ATTRACTS PEOPLE. SPEAKING OF TRANSPARENCY, YOU OFTEN MENTION IN THE COLLECTION NOTES THAT YOU USE ENVIRONMENTALLY CERTIFIED MATERIALS AND ARE ECOLOGICALLY CONSCIOUS.

RICK: I DO. I DO. I DO IT BECAUSE I LIKE THE EFFORT. PERSONALLY, I FEEL LIKE THERE IS AN HONOR IN THAT EFFORT. THERE'S ANOTHER SIDE OF ME THAT'S TOO CYNICAL AND THINKS IT'S TOO LATE. WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE ANYWAY, AS WE TALKED EARLIER, SO IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER. BUT TO BE CONSIDERATE OF THE WORLD IS A GOOD MESSAGE. SO THAT'S WHY. TO BE THOUGHTFUL, KIND, AND CONSIDERATE IS GREAT. SO I WILL DO EVERYTHING I CAN TO GO IN THAT DIRECTION. BUT LIKE I SAID, IT'S PROBABLY TOO LATE.

IN THE CONTEXT OF THE DEFINITION OF LUXURY, HIROSHI, YOU WROTE ABOUT THE TEA MASTER “SEN NO RIKYŪ” IN YOUR AUTOBIOGRAPHY. WABI-CHA EMERGED THROUGH RIKYŪ AND FOUND BEAUTY IN WHAT MANY PERCEIVE AS NEGATIVE QUALITIES - SIMPLE, DECAYED, UNADORNED, TRANSIENCE, AND IMPERFECTION.” I FEEL THERE'S AN OVERLAP WITH RICK OWENS' CREATIONS. NOWADAYS, THERE ISN’T A DAY WE DON’T HEAR THE WORD "LUXURY" IN FASHION. RICK, WHAT DOES LUXURY MEAN TO YOU?

RICK: FOR ME, IT'S ABOUT SPACE AND TIME. THE PROPORTION OF SPACE AND TIME. THE LAVISHNESS OF THAT VAST PROPORTION. THE PROPORTION OF THIS PLACE IS A LUXURY. BEING ABLE TO STOP AND STAND STILL IN TIME, I THINK, IS THE UTMOST LUXURY. BY THE WAY, THE GARDEN AT ENOURA OBSERVATORY IS JUST SUBLIME. I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYTHING BEYOND THIS.

HIROSHI: THANK YOU (LAUGHS).

ONE LAST QUESTION. IF THERE WERE SOMETHING AKIN TO THE ENOURA OBSERVATORY, SAY, IF YOU WERE TO CREATE "RICK OWENS' RUINS," WHAT WOULD IT BE LIKE?

RICK: WELL, IT'LL BE EPHEMERAL, AND IT WILL BE OUT OF A FOG THAT SMELLS LIKE LILIES AND TASTES LIKE ICE CREAM.

HIROSHI: WONDERFUL (LAUGHS). RICK, SHALL WE GO SEE THE FOSSILS?

RICK: YES!