FEBRUARY 2024

THE NEW ORDER — A CONVERSATION WITH RICK OWENS — ISSUE 30 — BY JAMES OLIVER



HOW DID IT FEEL TO VISIT THE TOKYO STORE FOR THE FIRST TIME?

BUT IT IS REALLY FUN SEEING IT IN REAL LIFE.



WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WERE IN JAPAN?

20 YEARS AGO. I’M NOT A FAN OF TRAVELLING. I JUST DON’T LIKE LONG FLIGHTS. I CAN’T SMOKE ON LONG FLIGHTS. I DON’T LIKE DRIVING IN CARS AND TRAVELLING AROUND. I AM NOT THAT ADVENTUROUS. ACTUALLY, I’M QUITE LAZY. I TELL MYSELF, ‘YOU’RE SUCH A LAZY DICK’. THEN AGAIN, I MADE IT TO PARIS, I HAVE MADE IT TO JAPAN, I’VE GOTTEN OUT OF THE HOUSE SO MAYBE I CAN GIVE MYSELF A BREAK.



WHAT’S YOUR DAILY ROUTINE?

I AM A CREATURE OF HABIT, AND THAT IS WHY BEING A DESIGNER SUITS ME. A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD BRISTLE AT HAVING TO STICK TO SUCH A ROUTINE, BUT I EMBRACE IT. HAVING TO COME UP WITH COLLECTIONS, ON TIME, FOUR TIMES A YEAR, IT GIVES ME A RHYTHM AND A HAPPY LITTLE SENSE OF PURPOSE. I PROBABLY CLING TO THAT. THE PACE ISN'T A PROBLEM FOR ME. I CAN UNDERSTAND FOR OTHER DESIGNERS THE PACE AND THE PRESSURE COULD BE UNBEARABLE. IF I IMAGINE HAVING TO DEAL WITH COMMITTEE DECISIONS, ADVICE AND SUGGESTIONS ALL THE TIME, I THINK THAT WOULD PROBABLY KILL ME.

IT'S NOT THAT I DON'T FEEL ANY PRESSURE, BUT IT'S NOT OPPRESSIVE. IT'S INVIGORATING AND INSPIRING. IF I HAD UNLIMITED TIME AND RESOURCES, I WOULDN'T KNOW WHERE TO START. BUT IF IT'S SEASON TO SEASON, IN THOSE THREE MONTHS YOU HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME, A CERTAIN NUMBER OF RESOURCES, AND YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING CONVINCING. THAT'S A PUZZLE THAT I REALLY ENJOY CRACKING EVERY SEASON. I START EARLY ENOUGH SO THAT I’M NOT GOING TO END UP PANICKING. I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 20 YEARS. AT THE BEGINNING I WOULD PUT THINGS OFF OR I WOULDN'T DECIDE UNTIL TOO LATE. I'M NOT REALLY THE TYPE TO MAKE LAST MINUTE SPONTANEOUS DECISIONS. WHEN I MAKE A DECISION, I STICK TO IT.

AS FAR AS A DAILY ROUTINE, I GET UP AROUND EIGHT, I HAVE COFFEE, I LOOK AT MY EMAILS, AND I USUALLY TURN ON AN OLD AND BLACK AND WHITE MOVIE. IT'S USUALLY THE SAME ONE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. FOR THE LAST SIX MONTHS MAYBE, IT HAS BEEN THE BLACK CAT FROM 1934. IT’S GOT BORIS KARLOFF AND THE DRACULA GUY, BELLA LUGOSI. IT IS ABOUT A YOUNG AMERICAN COUPLE STRANDED SOMEWHERE. THEIR CAR BREAKS DOWN, SO THEY HAVE TO STOP AT THIS CASTLE. THE OWNER IS AN ARCHITECT, AND THE CASTLE IS VERY MODERNIST. THE DECORATION IS SO JEAN PROUVÉ. IT MUST HAVE BEEN INSPIRED BY THE ART FAIR IN PARIS WHERE ART DECO WAS INTRODUCED. IT'S VERY FUTURISTIC AND MUST HAVE BEEN VERY SHOCKING IN THE 1930S. THE OWNER KEEPS THE BODIES OF HIS PAST LOVERS IN THESE GLASS CASKETS IN THE BASEMENT. HE IS GOING TO HAVE A SATANIC MASS AND HE WANTS TO USE THE YOUNG BRIDE AS A SACRIFICE. IN THE END THEY ESCAPE, AND THE CASTLE BLOWS UP.

ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I LOVE THAT MOVIE IS, IT'S BLACK AND WHITE AND HAS THIS ART DECO AESTHETIC. IT IS WHAT THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW WAS BASED ON, THE STORY IS IDENTICAL. THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW WAS A HUGE INFLUENCE ON ME WHEN I WAS YOUNG. THE OTHER DAY I WAS LOOKING AT THE CROWD AT MY SHOW AND I WAS THINKING, ‘GOD I RECREATED THAT ROCKY HORROR PARTY SCENE’. AT THE TIME THAT MOVIE WAS THE MOST GLAMOROUS, EXOTIC THING I COULD IMAGINE. A REMOTE PARTY IN A RUINED OLD CASTLE IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE IN EUROPE, WITH ALL THESE FREAKS TURNING UP ON MOTORCYCLES. THERE WAS THIS SEXUAL AMBIGUITY, FREEDOM AND RELEASE.

SO, BACK TO MY ROUTINE. I WATCH MY LITTLE MOVIE WHILE I'M TAKING A SHOWER AND GO DOWNSTAIRS TO MY OFFICE. I’LL HAVE SOME MEETINGS WITH SOME OF MY TEAM AND THEN GO OUT ON THE TERRACE AND SIT UNDER THE TREES TO WORK FOR A WHILE. I MIGHT GO OUT TO LUNCH WITH FRIENDS. AFTER LUNCH I GO UPSTAIRS TAKE A LITTLE NAP AND I START THE WHOLE THING OVER. I GO TO THE GYM AROUND 8 O 'CLOCK AT A HOTEL DOWN THE STREET. I DON'T HAVE A GYM AT HOME BECAUSE I WOULD NEVER LEAVE THE HOUSE. I ALWAYS HAVE TO GO FIND A GYM SOMEWHERE.

I CHANGE GYMS MAYBE EVERY FIVE YEARS. CHANGING GYMS IS LIKE MOVING TO ANOTHER COUNTRY. IT'S TOTALLY DISRUPTIVE BECAUSE IT BECOMES SUCH A HUGE PART OF YOUR DAY. IT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT. RECENTLY I STARTED GOING TO THE GYM AT THIS WEIRD LITTLE HOTEL THAT HAS BEEN OPEN FOR ABOUT FIVE YEARS. IT’S KIND OF ISOLATED AND DISCREET. NOBODY USES IT. IN THE BASEMENT, THERE'S A POOL. IT'S VERY PLUSH. MICHELLE USUALLY COMES AND MEETS ME AROUND 21:00 OR 21:30. WE HAVE DINNER IN THIS LITTLE BAR IN THE HOTEL, IN THE CORNER. I APPRECIATE IT BECAUSE IT'S GOT MOHAIR, VELVET, BANQUETS, AND REALLY GOOD PORTO LINEN. BUT THEN SOME OF THE WALLS ARE COVERED IN STYROFOAM, NOT PLASTER AND THAT DISTURBS ME. SO, I CAN'T BE COMPLETELY AT PEACE, BUT THAT’S AS CLOSE TO PEACE AS I EVER REALLY GET. EVERY SINGLE DAY IS PRETTY MUCH LIKE THAT. UNLESS I HAVE TO TRAVEL.



WHAT DEFINES YOU AS A DESIGNER AND WHAT MAKES YOUR APPROACH SO UNIQUE?

I LOOK AT THE PREVIOUS COLLECTION AND SEE WHAT THE LOGICAL PROGRESSION WOULD BE. WHAT WOULD MAKE SENSE AFTER THE SHOW OR AFTER THE COLLECTION I JUST DID. THERE MUST BE LOGIC AND CONSISTENCY TO IT.

I THINK I DO COLLABS AS A WAY OF PROMOTING MY ETHOS WHICH IS ANTI-BIGOTRY. WHEN I WAS YOUNG, I REALLY RESENTED RULES BECAUSE I WAS A FLAMBOYANT SISSY IN A SMALL TOWN. THE REACTION TO ME WAS HOSTILE. I'VE PROBABLY BEEN SEEKING VENGEANCE FOR THAT MY ENTIRE LIFE.

IT'S NOT EXACTLY VENGEANCE THOUGH. IT'S TOLERANCE. IN THE KMART BASEMENT I FOUND DAVID BOWIE'S DIAMOND DOG ALBUM COVER. IT DISTURBED ME SO MUCH AND MADE ME SO UNCOMFORTABLE BECAUSE IT WAS PUSHING ALL THESE BUTTONS THAT I DIDN'T KNOW WERE THERE. THAT KIND OF GROTESQUE, GLAM, SEXUAL AMBIGUITY, THAT SET ME OFF ON MY PATH AND THAT WAS MY RELEASE. I THINK IT WAS A REACTION TO THE AESTHETICS AROUND ME, TO THE SMALL CONSERVATIVE TOWN WHICH WAS RATHER SMUG AND BIGOTED.

I REALISED WE HAVE TO HAVE EXTREMES TO KEEP THE BALANCE. SO, THAT'S WHAT I DECIDED TO DO. I DECIDED TO BE KIND OF A PRIEST OF MY KIND OF AESTHETIC. AN ALTERNATIVE AESTHETIC THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE THEIR OWN REFLECTION IN IF THEY CAN'T FIND THEIR REFLECTION IN THE STANDARD, CONTEMPORARY, RIGID, AND THE CLICHED. WHEN I DO COLLABS, I AM ABLE TO TALK TO A NEW AUDIENCE ABOUT THAT BOTH IN SUBTLE AND UNSUBTLE WAYS. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I'M SAVING THE WORLD AT ALL. I'M JUST SAYING THAT I'M HELPING THE BALANCE A LITTLE BIT IN MY OWN TINY LITTLE WAY. I FEEL GOOD ABOUT THAT. THAT MAKES SENSE.



WHAT'S THE SECRET TO LONGEVITY?

TENACITY. KEEPING YOUR HEAD DOWN AND HAVING FANTASTIC PARTNERS. THAT IS THE PART OF THIS STORY THAT IS PROBABLY THE MOST MAGICAL BECAUSE WITHOUT HAVING PARTNERS THAT PROTECT YOU, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. YOU NEED PARTNERS WHO KNOW HOW TO NAVIGATE THE INDUSTRY. THAT'S NOT A TALENT THAT I HAVE. SO, ON MY OWN, I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO IT.

I ALWAYS JOKE THAT I THINK MY PARTNERS COULD PROBABLY HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL WORKING WITH ANYONE, BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH IDEAS AND THERE'S A LOT OF CREATIVITY OUT THERE, BUT IT'S THE EXECUTION THAT REALLY COUNTS. IDEAS ARE A DIME A DOZEN BUT BEING ABLE TO GET THEM EXECUTED OUT THERE PROPERLY, THAT'S THE HARD PART. SO, I DON'T TAKE ALL THE CREDIT THAT’S FOR SURE. I HAVE GREAT PARTNERS WHO HAVE PROTECTED ME FOR THE PAST 27 YEARS. AND THAT IS A MARRIAGE THAT IS VERY UNUSUAL. TO BE THAT HARMONIOUS AND FOR THAT BOND TO BE SO STRONG. THAT IS EXTREMELY RARE. WE'RE EXTREMELY LUCKY.



THE AESTHETIC OF THE BRAND RICK OWENS HAS STAYED CONSISTENT OVER TIME. HOW HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF THE AESTHETIC AND KEEP IT TOGETHER?

I MEAN, WHEN I LOOK AT THE ARTIST, I LOOK AT DONALD CHADD AND JOHN CHAMBERLAIN AND GUYS LIKE THAT. BEING ABLE TO SEE THAT KIND OF FOCUS AND THAT KIND OF STEADFASTNESS, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN IMPORTANT TO ME. LE CORBUSIER, ROBERT MALLET-STEVENS, THOSE GUYS, THEY ALL HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC SENSE OF LOGIC THAT I ALWAYS KIND OF ADMIRED. I ALWAYS WANTED TO EMULATE THAT, AND I’VE DONE MY BEST.



FINALLY, WHAT IS YOUR VISION FOR THE FUTURE?

WHEN PEOPLE GET TIRED OF ME, I'M NOT JUST GOING TO CHANGE. IT’S EITHER YOU LIKE MY STYLE, OR YOU DON'T. I ALWAYS SAY, I DON'T REALLY WANT TO GET BIGGER. I WANT TO GET BETTER. I HAVE MORE FIRE IN ME ABOUT GETTING BETTER THAN I EVER DID.

I SEE THIS BODY OF WORK AND I LIKE IT. I THINK IT'S WORTHWHILE AND I WANT TO PROTECT IT. I DON'T WANT TO FUCK IT UP. I WANT IT TO BE PERFECT UNTIL THE VERY END. I'M EXTREMELY MOTIVATED. MY JOB NOW IS TO PROTECT MY BODY OF WORK. I HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THE LEGACY. I DON’T KNOW IF THAT IS SOMETHING I WANT TO CLING ONTO FOREVER. I HAVEN'T FIGURED THAT OUT YET.