JUNE 2023

LES INROCKUPTIBLES— “I IRRITATE THE PEOPLE I TRY TO IRRITATE”— JUNE 2023 — BY CAROLE BOINET



RICK OWENS IS A CENTRAL FIGURE IN FASHION, DISTURBING TO SOME AND FASCINATING TO OTHERS. AHEAD OF THE MEN'S FASHION WEEK AT THE END OF JUNE, WE MET WITH THE LORD OF DARKNESS AT HIS HOME IN PARIS. MOVIES, EYEBROW SHAVING, TIKTOK, AND PENISES PROTRUDING FROM THEIR TUNICS.

HE WEARS A THIN BLACK SWEATER AND BLACK SHORTS, REVEALING LEAN, MUSCULAR CALVES. HIS LONG, STRAIGHT BLACK HAIR FALLS TO HIS SHOULDERS. HIS HEAD IS ADORNED WITH A SMALL BLACK CAP. ON HIS FEET, HEAVY BLACK AND WHITE SHOES GIVE HIM A LUMBERING HEIGHT. RICK OWENS GREETS US WITH A SMILE AND AN OUTSTRETCHED HAND. HE INTRODUCES HIMSELF BEFORE GIVING US A TOUR OF THE PROPERTY. WE'RE IN PARIS, AT THE FORMER HEADQUARTERS OF THE SOCIALIST PARTY, THE BUILDING THAT HOUSES THE DESIGNER'S LIVING AND WORKING QUARTERS. AT THE END OF THE ROUGH CONCRETE HALL, A TERRACE OVERLOOKS THE FORMER MINISTRY OF DEFENSE. ALL IS CALM AND MINIMAL. AN UNFINISHED WOODEN STAIRCASE LEADS UP TO THE ROOM WHERE HE WORKS ON HIS COLLECTIONS. A LONG TABLE SHOWCASES DRAWINGS ON THE WALL. WE SIT AT THE CORNER BENCH.

BORN IN 1962 IN PORTERVILLE, A SMALL TOWN 260 KILOMETERS NORTH OF LOS ANGELES, RICK OWENS IS A MAJOR FIGURE IN FASHION AND, MORE BROADLY, THE ART WORLD. THE MAN THE MEDIA LIKES TO CALL THE LORD OF DARKNESS IS DISTURBING, SURPRISING, AND FASCINATING. AT HIS SHOWS, HORDES OF FANS POUR IN WITH EXTRAVAGANT, BLACK-TINTED FLAMBOYANCE. THE TWO MOST FAMOUS ARTISTS ARE FECAL MATTER, A YOUNG DUO WITH A "GLAMOUR ALIEN" LOOK, MINIMALLY MIXING SHAVED HEADS, WHITE MAKE-UP, DISTORTING LENSES, AND OVERSIZED PLATFORM SHOES. HIS COLLECTIONS DEPICT A MYSTICAL, FUTURISTIC WORLD WHERE THE BOUNDARIES BETWEEN MASCULINE AND FEMININE ARE BLURRED. HIS MANNEQUINS ARE LIKE MAGICIANS FROM A BACKROOM OR ON A DESERT PLANET, PERHAPS LIKE EARTH WILL BECOME ONCE SCORCHED BY GLOBAL WARMING.

AS A YOUNG ADULT, RICK OWENS ATTENDED OTIS, AN ART SCHOOL IN LOS ANGELES THAT DISPLEASED HIM. TOO THEORETICAL... TOO ABSTRACT. AFTER TWO YEARS, HE WENT TO A FASHION DESIGN SCHOOL, MAKING PATTERNS FOR FAST-FASHION COMPANIES.

AT THE SAME TIME, IN LOS ANGELES, COOL IS EMBODIED BY A CERTAIN MICHÈLE LAMY, A FORMER FRENCH LAWYER FROM NEW YORK, WHO OPENED TRACTION AVENUE, A BOUTIQUE IN BEVERLY HILLS, LE CAFÉ DES ARTISTES, A HIP RESTAURANT IN HOLLYWOOD, AND SUCCESSFULLY LAUNCHED LAMY, HER CLOTHING LINE. WITH HER HUSBAND AT THE TIME, FILM PRODUCER RICHARD NEWTON, SHE WAS A CELEBRITY IN THE LATE 1980S L.A. NIGHTLIFE. ONE DAY, RICK OWENS APPLIED FOR A JOB WITH LAMY. ONE NIGHT WHILE DRINKING AT A CLUB, HE FINALLY MANAGED TO TALK WITH HIS BOSS. LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT. HE SAID HE WAS 27 AT THE TIME, SO SHE WOULD BE 45. MICHÈLE LAMY BECAME HIS MUSE AND PARTNER. AS WELL AS HIS COACH, AND HELPED HIM OVERCOME THE PARALYZING APATHY CAUSED BY HIS HEAVY DRINKING. RICK OWENS SOON DEVELOPED A PASSION FOR THE GYM AND TOOK UP STEROIDS TO BUILD MUSCLE IN A BODY HE FOUND FLABBY.

HE ORGANIZED HIS FIRST SHOW IN 1994, BUT IT WASN'T UNTIL 2002 THAT HE MADE HIS MARK ON NEW YORK'S FASHION WEEK. A YEAR LATER, THE LAMY-OWENS COUPLE MOVED TO PARIS, ESTABLISHING A FORM OF RADICALISM IN THE FASHION WORLD. A PERENNIAL RADICALISM: THE COLLECTIONS AND SCENOGRAPHY VARY, BUT THE GUIDING PRINCIPLE (GRANDIOSE AND MINIMAL, HEROIC, AND INSOLENT) REMAINS THE SAME. IN 2019, AS PART OF THE FIAC, THE CENTRE POMPIDOU IS GIVING HIM CARTE BLANCHE FOR THE NIGHT. BEFORE THE WORKS OF THE PERMANENT COLLECTION, PERFORMERS INCLUDE CHRISTEENE (BUTTS IN THE AIR), RAPPER TOMMY CASH, MUSICIAN GLEN MEADMORE (PENIS OUT), THE DIVINE DAVID, MOTHER RHEEDA LADURÉE, AND KEMBRA PFAHLER. JOLTING. TURBULENT. DISORDERLY. RICK OWENS QUESTIONS THE MUSEUM SPACE AND THE CONCEPT OF BEAUTY. CONFORMITY, GOOD TASTE, AND BOREDOM HAVE LONG BEEN BANISHED FROM THE VOCABULARY OF THE MAN WHO SEES HIS FASHION SHOWS AS PERFORMANCES.

WE EXPECTED A RESERVED, ARROGANT, AND COLD PERSON. INSTEAD, RICK OWENS IS FUNNY, ENGAGING, AND TALKATIVE. IT WAS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO START THE INTERVIEW WITH THE QUESTION WE HAD PREPARED ("WHAT ARE YOU WATCHING TODAY"), HE DECIDED TO TELL US ABOUT THE FILM HE HAD JUST SEEN, PETER VON KANT BY FRANÇOIS OZON.

HOW DID THIS MOVIE CHANGE YOU?

RICK OWENS — IT’S IRRESISTIBLE. IT'S AN ADAPTATION OF FASSBINDER'S THE BITTER TEARS OF PETRA VON KANT. I'M SURE I'VE MISSED PLENTY OF SUBTLE REFERENCES, AS I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY FASSBINDER IN YEARS. WITHOUT THEM, THE FILM IS A LITTLE CRAZY. ISABELLE ADJANI IS FASCINATING. HER CHARACTER IS CARTOONISH. EVERYTHING IS EXAGGERATED TO THE HIGHEST DEGREE. IT'S ALMOST KABUKI.

HOW DO YOU CHOOSE THE FILMS YOU WANT TO SEE?

HMM...

THIS ONE FOR EXAMPLE, HOW DID YOU CHOOSE IT?

OH, BECAUSE IT'S FASSBINDER AND ISABELLE ADJANI. I'VE ALWAYS LOVED THE CINEMA: EISENSTEIN, FRITZ LANG, CRONENBERG...I WATCH AN OLD FILM EVERY MORNING. IN RECENT WEEKS, IT WAS THE BLACK CAT, A BLACK-AND-WHITE HORROR FILM FROM THE 1930S STARRING BORIS KARLOFF AND BELA LUGOSI. IT EMERGED AFTER THE PARIS INTERNATIONAL EXHIBITION OF MODERN DECORATIVE AND INDUSTRIAL ARTS, WHERE ART DECO, MODERNISM, ETC. ENSHRINED.

IN THIS FILM, AN ARCHITECT LIVES IN A VERY JEAN PROUVÉ STYLE HOUSE. IT WAS RADICAL FOR ITS TIME. IT'S THE STORY OF A YOUNG COUPLE ON THEIR HONEYMOON WHO, AFTER AN ACCIDENT, END UP WITH A MAD SCIENTIST WHO KEEPS HIS FORMER LOVERS IN GLASS COFFINS IN THE BASEMENT. I WATCH IT WITHOUT SOUND AND PLAY OPERA. I LOVE IT FOR ITS BLACK AND WHITE, MODERNIST ARCHITECTURE, AND EXAGGERATED CHARACTERS.

THERE'S SOMETHING TOUCHING ABOUT THIS OLD MAN WHO LIVES WITH HIS PAST LOVES. I CAN SEE MYSELF IN HIM. I'M AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL IN EVERYTHING I DO. SO, WHEN I WATCH THIS FILM, I THINK ABOUT WHO I AM AND WHERE I AM IN LIFE, AND THIS IDEA OF LIVING IN AUSTERE PRECISION, SUPPRESSING EMOTIONS HIDDEN IN THE BASEMENT. THE ADDED INTEREST IS THAT IT SHARES THE SAME SCRIPT AS THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW, WHICH WAS VERY EDUCATIONAL FOR ME DURING A TIME WHEN I WAS TRYING TO BECOME AN ARTIST. I COME FROM A SMALL PROVINCIAL TOWN WITH A CLOSED, SANCTIMONIOUS MINDSET. WE HAD TO DRIVE TWO HOURS TO REACH A CITY WHERE A CINEMA WAS SHOWING IT AT MIDNIGHT. BECAUSE IN THE USA IN THE 1970S, THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW WAS SHOWN AT MIDNIGHT, AND THE KIDS WOULD TURN UP IN DISGUISE. FOR ME, IT WAS A WAY OUT, THE ONLY WAY TO ENCOUNTER THIS FLAMBOYANT EXOTICISM, THIS FREEDOM. THIS FILM MADE ME WHO I AM TODAY.

HOW DID YOU HEAR ABOUT IT?

WHEN YOU'RE YOUNG AND CURIOUS, YOU LOOK TO DISCOVER NEW THINGS FROM ROCK MAGAZINES LIKE YOURS.

HOW DID THIS FILM CHANGE YOU?

AT ONE OF MY SHOWS, I LOOKED AT THE AUDIENCE, ESPECIALLY THE KIDS. AND I THOUGHT TO MYSELF: "BUT I RECREATED THE PARTY SCENE FROM THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW." IT TOUCHED ME DEEPLY. THERE ARE YOUNG PEOPLE FOR WHOM I REPRESENT A KIND OF FREEDOM. I'M PROVING TO THEM THAT YOU CAN BE YOURSELF BY CELEBRATING YOUR ECCENTRICITY.

IT MAKES ME VERY HAPPY, ESPECIALLY WHEN PEOPLE ARE SO STUPID AND SANCTIMONIOUS. CONSERVATIVE POLITICS DOMINATE THE WORLD TODAY; CONSERVATIVE VOICES HAVE IMMENSE POWER. IT'S ALMOST A MORAL DUTY FOR ME TO PROPOSE A COUNTERVAILING POWER. I DON'T WANT TO ELIMINATE MORALISM BECAUSE IT'S PART OF OUR WORLD, BUT WE ALSO NEED DECADENCE.

I'M NOT ENTIRELY DEPRAVED! [LAUGHS] BUT I DO SUGGEST DEPRAVITY IN MY WORK. THE FORCES OF EVIL HAVE NEVER TOTALLY WON, OR WE WOULDN'T BE HERE TODAY. HENCE, ALTHOUGH HUMAN NATURE CAN BE TOTALLY DISAPPOINTING, I TAKE COMFORT IN KNOWING THAT GOOD ALWAYS WINS, AS IT HAS BEEN THROUGHOUT HISTORY. SO THAT EXPLAINS THE FILM I WATCH IN THE MORNING!

BUT FOR OTHER SAILORS, IT'S CECIL B. DEMILLE'S CLEOPATRA WITH CLAUDETTE COLBERT—A MIX OF EGYPT, HISTORY, 1940S HOLLYWOOD, BLACK AND WHITE, AND ART DECO.

THERE ARE MANY WORTHWHILE LAYERS IN THIS FILM.

YOU'RE QUOTING OLD REFERENCES. ARE YOU ALSO INTERESTED IN CURRENT FILM PRODUCTION?

MICHÈLE [LAMY] AND I WATCHED JANE BY CHARLOTTE.

A DELICATE FILM. I FELL IN LOVE WITH CHARLOTTE GAINSBOURG, WITH WHOM I WAS UNFAMILIAR. SO WE WATCHED ALL HER FILMS, INCLUDING THE ONES SHE MADE WITH LARS VON TRIER. IT WAS DURING THE WEEK OF CHRISTMAS! CURRENT FILMS... I DON'T WATCH MANY. I DON'T HAVE THE TIME. I FALL ASLEEP QUICKLY WHEN I GO TO BED. I LOVE TRASHY MOVIES AND SERIES, LIKE RYAN MURPHY'S AMERICAN HORROR STORY. I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT IN A LONG TIME. IT BRINGS GAY FLAMBOYANCE TO THE AMERICAN MIDDLE CLASS. AND IT'S NOT CONDESCENDING GAY FLAMBOYANCE A LA WILL & GRACE, WHERE GAYS ARE JUST CARICATURES. IT'S THE QUEER MENTALITY OF GOING BEYOND. IN PARTICULAR, THERE'S ANGELA... WHAT'S HER NAME AGAIN?

YOU KNOW, THE BEAUTIFUL BLONDE ACTRESS WHO PLAYED IN KING KONG WAS SPOTTED BY ANTONIO LOPEZ IN THE SEVENTIES. JESSICA LANGE! YES, JESSICA FUCKING LANGE! SHE PLAYS A WOMAN WHO RUNS A CIRCUS AFTER HAVING HER LEGS AMPUTATED WHILE FILMING A SNUFF MOVIE IN BERLIN, WHERE SHE WAS A PORN ACTRESS. BRINGING THIS EXAGGERATION TO THE CONTEMPORARY TELEVISION LANDSCAPE... ASSUMING THAT VIEWERS ARE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND IT, THAT'S BRILLIANT. SOMETIMES RYAN MURPHY CAN BE A BIT CORNY... THE OTHER DAY, I SAW ON INSTAGRAM THAT JOHN WATERS WAS WEARING RICK OWENS SHOES! IT WAS THE THRILL OF A LIFETIME.

HAVE YOU EVER MET?

[HE SHAKES HIS HEAD NO]

WE SHOULD HAVE ARRANGED A MEETING! HE'S IN PARIS RIGHT NOW TO PROMOTE HIS BOOK.

I DON'T NEED TO MEET HIM. HE MIGHT NOT BE VERY NICE. AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT I'VE HEARD. I LOVE WHAT HE'S DONE, AND I LOVE THE FACT THAT HE'S WEARING MY SHOES. PINK FLAMINGOS IS MY LIFE. COMPLETE DECADENCE. IT WAS SUCH A THRILL FOR A KID LIKE ME. I THOUGHT, "WOW, YOU CAN GO SO FAR AND CREATE SOMETHING PERSUASIVE." IT WAS A REAL LESSON.

DO YOU THINK THIS TYPE OF ENERGY STILL EXISTS TODAY?

HMM... YES. BUT THEY ARE CRUSHED. IT'S HARD TO SEE.

THERE'S SO MUCH MEDIOCRE ENERGY OUT THERE COVERING IT UP. IT'S HARD TO SEE GENUINE SINCERITY. ANYONE CAN HAVE A FLASH OF AUTHENTICITY. MAINTAINING IT IS A PROBLEM. I SPENT A LOT OF TIME READING BOOKS, WATCHING MOVIES, TEACHING MYSELF, LEARNING, AND STUDYING AGAIN AND AGAIN. THEN CAME THE MOMENT WHEN I COULD GET UP ON STAGE AND PERFORM. IT'S A MATTER OF BRINGING TOGETHER EVERYTHING YOU'VE ACCUMULATED OVER THE YEARS AND GIVING IT YOUR OWN VERSION, YOUR OWN REINTERPRETATION.

DESIGNERS OFFER A COMPOSITION OF WHAT THEY HAVE DISCOVERED AND LEARNED OVER THE YEARS. SO, I STOPPED SEARCHING. I'M SURE THERE ARE PROPOSALS AS STRONG AS BEFORE, BUT I NO LONGER HAVE THAT INSATIABLE DESIRE TO ABSORB. I'M ALMOST SATURATED SO I CAN BE VERY SHARP. I ONLY REACT TO WHAT HITS ME RIGHT IN THE FACE. IT'S A BIT UNHEALTHY TO SAY, "OH I'VE ALREADY SEEN TOO MUCH", BUT I'M ALSO AWARE THAT THIS IS WHEN I EXPRESS MYSELF. I STILL HAVE A PLATFORM, AND I NEED TO PERFORM WHILE I STILL CAN. YOU NEVER KNOW HOW LONG IT'S GOING TO LAST... I'VE SEEN OLD STYLISTS REACH SATURATION POINT AND THEN STOP BECAUSE THEY'RE NO LONGER RELEVANT, AND THAT ISN'T VERY GOOD. I WONDER HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT IT. HUMAN NATURE ALWAYS WANTS MORE AND WANTS TO BE HEARD TOO. EVERYONE WANTS TO BE HEARD AND RECOGNIZED, WHETHER PROFESSIONALLY, BY THEIR LOVER OR THEIR CHILDREN. I'VE BEEN LUCKY ENOUGH TO EXPERIENCE THIS TO AN UNIMAGINABLE EXTENT.

HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU'RE STILL RELEVANT TODAY?

I'M NOT SURE. NO, TRUTHFULLY, I'M CERTAIN. I'M MORE RELEVANT THAN I'VE EVER BEEN.

I'VE HAD MUCH SUCCESS, SO EVEN IF I SCREW UP, I'LL BE FINE, AND I'LL BE ABLE TO MOVE ON TO SOMETHING ELSE. AND I'M STILL LEARNING, TECHNICALLY SPEAKING. FEW DESIGNERS CAN KEEP THEIR OWN VOICE AS LONG AS I HAVE. I'M GOING TO BE A LEGEND! IT MAY SOUND ARROGANT TO SAY SO, [LAUGHS] BUT I WILL BECOME A LEGEND THROUGH SHEER TENACITY. AND IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT ME AND MY TALENT.

I WAS PROTECTED BY BUSINESS PARTNERS, WHO DIDN'T REALLY INTERFERE WITH WHAT I WANTED TO DO. THEY SUPPORTED ME. LIKE SAINT LAURENT AND PIERRE BERGÉ. I'M NOT COMPARING MYSELF, OF COURSE; I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THE DYNAMICS.

I FEEL PROTECTED AND NURTURED. TALENT IS ONLY A SMALL PART OF SUCCESS. THERE'S ALSO WISDOM, PLANNING, NOT SATURATING THE MARKET, AND DELIVERING QUALITY GARMENTS ON TIME SO THAT THEY CAN BE SOLD AT HIGH PRICES BY THE SALES FORCE. IT'S A TESTAMENT TO THE POWER OF BUSINESS RATHER THAN THE POWER OF TALENT.

DO YOU STILL FEEL FREE? OR IS IT SOMETIMES NECESSARY TO CREATE TO PLEASE BUYERS?

I'M NOT UNAWARE... I'M PRACTICAL. I DON'T DESIGN COSTUMES. MY CLOTHES CAN BE VERY THEATRICAL, BUT FOR EVERY DRAMATIC PLAY, THERE ARE TONS OF PIECES THAT CAN FIT INTO ANYONE'S WORLD. I LIKE THINGS BASIC, SIMPLE, AND EVEN COMMERCIAL BUT WELL-CONSIDERED.

I SEEK TO CORRUPT THE WORLD IN SMALL WAYS.

IT'S WONDERFUL TO PRODUCE MY CLOTHES AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE. PART OF ME HAS LONG BEEN EMBARRASSED BY THIS VERY MASCULINE SIDE OF "I'M GOING TO SPILL MY SPERM ALL OVER THE WORLD." IT'S AN EGO TRIP, BUT ALSO A VERY HUMAN NEED TO BE HEARD, TO ENTER INTO CONVERSATION WITH OTHERS. I WAS ABLE TO TALK TO THE WORLD.

I SAY THINGS, AND IT ANSWERS. IT'S PROOF THAT PEOPLE NEEDED TO HEAR IT.

YOU TALK ABOUT SPERM. YOUR PIECES GIVE OFF A VERY SEXUAL VIBE. WHERE DO THESE IMAGES COME FROM? FROM SEX-CLUBS? PORN?

I LOVE PORN! I LOVE OLD AND NEW PORN. BUT I DON'T THINK MY WORK IS PARTICULARLY EROTIC. I SEE IT MORE AS ACCEPTING HUMAN WEAKNESS.

IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE, ON INSTAGRAM, PEOPLE OFTEN TALK ABOUT ME IN TERMS OF DARKNESS, CYNICISM, AND SATANISM.

WORDS FROM PEOPLE WHO DON'T THINK TOO MUCH. BUT, YES, I'M SHAKING THINGS UP. SOME PEOPLE WOULD LIKE FASHION TO BE HAPPY, LIKE WALT DISNEY'S WORLD.

THEY WANT TO BE ENTERTAINED AND REASSURED, LIKE CHILDREN AT DISNEYLAND.

I SPEAK ABOUT WHAT WE GO THROUGH IN LIFE: INSECURITIES, DISAPPOINTMENTS, SORROWS, FEARS, ANXIETIES, AND THE QUEST FOR BEAUTY. PEOPLE FEEL THREATENED BECAUSE I SUGGEST THAT THE IMPORTANT THING IS NOT TO ASPIRE TO THE STATUS QUO. IN AIRPORTS, WE'RE ALWAYS PASSING THROUGH THESE SPACES SELLING BEAUTY PRODUCTS, WHICH, ABOVE ALL, SELL A NARROW, INTOLERANT VISION OF BEAUTY AND, THEREFORE, OF SEXUALITY. WE'RE ASSIGNED AESTHETIC STANDARDS; IF WE DON'T MEET THEM, WE'RE ABNORMAL. I OFFER OTHER OPTIONS. YOU CAN FEEL SAFE OUTSIDE OF THESE AIRPORT STORES! YOU DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THEIR RULES. THAT'S WHAT SCARES PEOPLE WHO CALL ME A SATANIST.

AT ONE TIME, WITCHES WERE BURNED. THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ACCUSATIONS AGAINST PEOPLE WHO DON'T FIT THE MOLD. I CAN LIVE WITH THAT. I IRRITATE THE PEOPLE I'M TRYING TO IRRITATE. I DRESSED THE MODELS IN SHORT TUNICS FOR A FASHION SHOW WITH THEIR PENISES STICKING OUT. I DID THAT BECAUSE THE MEN'S SHOW IS A CONVERSATION ABOUT MASCULINITY. BUT THE PENIS IS SO WELL PROTECTED... IT REPRESENTS POWER, AND SO EXPOSING IT IN THIS WAY, AT REST, BECOMES A THREAT. THE PHALLUS IS PROFANE, PRECIOUS, AND PROTECTED. WOMEN'S BREASTS ARE NOT. EVEN WOMEN'S GENDERS AREN'T SO OFFENSIVE. THE PENIS REMAINS SHOCKING! SHOWING IT IN THIS WAY, IN MULTIPLIED FORM, WAS A WAY TO DEFLATE THE MYTH OF MASCULINE POWER.

MY FAVORITE REACTION WAS FROM KARL LAGERFELD. HE WAS ON TV, AND WHEN ASKED WHAT HE THOUGHT, HE REPLIED: "IT'S DISGUSTING TO SHOW ALL THAT DELICATESSEN FARE ON A RUNWAY." FOR SUCH AN INTELLIGENT MAN TO ADMIT FEELING THREATENED BY THIS... SURPRISED ME. SO BE CAREFUL! DON'T PISS OFF THE PENIS!

HOW DO YOU RELATE TO MASCULINITY? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU TODAY?

I DON'T THINK ABOUT IT. WAR HAS ALWAYS BEEN MASCULINE. SPORT IS CENTERED ON THE WHOLE IDEA OF COMPETITION, VICTORY, AND AGGRESSION. WHEN I FIRST STARTED, I WONDERED WHERE I GOT THE AGGRESSION THAT ALLOWED ME TO INSIST THAT WHAT I HAD TO SAY WAS IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO BE LISTENED TO. WHAT'S THE SOURCE OF THIS ARROGANCE? IT EMBARRASSED ME, BUT I'M PROUD OF IT BECAUSE IT TAKES A LOT TO GET WHERE YOU WANT TO GO. I DON'T BELIEVE IN AGGRESSION. I'M UNCOMFORTABLE WITH ANY SIGN OF AGGRESSION. BUT I KNOW THAT I STILL HAVE IT IN ME. I KNOW WHEN I GET IMPATIENT AND WANT TO SLAP SOMEONE. I'M 61 YEARS OLD; I SHOULD HAVE REACHED A LEVEL OF SERENITY AND PEACE. THEN I REMEMBER THAT I'M A HUMAN BEING WHO GETS ANGRY... MAYBE I NEED A NICE GLASS OF WATER! [LAUGHS] SOCIAL NETWORKS ARE A JUDGMENTAL OUTLET. BUT I KNOW THE JUDGMENT WELL. I WENT THROUGH THAT WHEN I WAS YOUNGER WHEN I WAS CALLED A FREAK AND A "FAG". I ONCE READ THAT THE PRIMARY FORCES OF HUMAN BEINGS ARE GREED AND COMPETITION. SHIT ALWAYS STINKS. NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE BUILD AND TRAVEL, WE STILL HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT HOW TO MAKE OUR SHIT STOP STINKING. LIFE IS STUPID.

MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE SHIT STINKS THAT LIFE ISN'T BORING.

YES! MY THERAPIST TOLD ME SO. I STARTED SEEING HIM LAST YEAR BECAUSE I FELT... HMM... I WANTED TO BE MORE SERENE. IT BOTHERED ME THAT I WASN'T SOFTER, KINDER. WHY DO MY EMOTIONS ALWAYS COME OUT SO SHARPLY? HE TOLD ME: "LET'S SAY YOU'VE REACHED THE STAGE OF SERENITY; WHAT WOULD YOU DO THEN?" OH, RIGHT, I GET IT! I'D BE BORED... SO, DOES THIS MEAN I WILL BE SELF-SABOTAGING ALL MY LIFE? HE DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION.

I TOLD HIM I FELT LIKE I'D BECOME A BITTER OLD MAN, IRRITATED BY THE SLIGHTEST ANNOYANCE. IS THAT WHAT I AM? HE DIDN'T SAY YES, BUT SOMETHING THE SAME.

YOU THINK YOU ARE?

I'M SPOILED ROTTEN. YESTERDAY, I SAW AN 80-YEAR-OLD MAN CROSSING THE ROAD WITH A WALKER. HE WAS GOING VERY SLOWLY. I WONDERED IF HE WERE AFRAID THE LIGHT WOULD TURN RED. THEN, IF HE LIVED ALONE, WHAT HE THOUGHT ABOUT WHEN HE WOKE UP IN THE MORNING AND IF THIS WAS HIS ONLY OUTING OF THE DAY: SPENDING THREE HOURS TO BUY A LOAF OF BREAD? AND I'M COMPLAINING ABOUT MY LIFE? WOULD I HAVE THE STRENGTH TO BE THIS GUY, AT HIS AGE, ALONE IN MY HOUSE WITH MY WALKER? THAT'S DISTURBING.

WHAT KIND OF CHILD WERE YOU?

VERY DELICATE. MY PARENTS WERE OVERPROTECTIVE. I NEVER GOT DIRTY AND FOLLOWED THE OTHER KIDS ON THEIR ADVENTURES. I WAS AFRAID OF THE OTHER KIDS. I WAS TERRIFIED OF BEING NAKED IN THE LOCKER ROOM. I LIVED WITH MY OLD PARENTS; NOBODY EVER SAW ME NAKED. IT WAS A DELUGE OF SHAME AND ANGUISH FOR ME. WHEN I UNDERSTOOD MY SEXUAL ORIENTATION [RICK OWENS IS BISEXUAL] AFTER HIGH SCHOOL, I TOOK UP SPORTS AND CHANGED MY BODY, WHICH WAS VERY SOFT. SMALL SHOULDERS, ALMOST WOMANLY BREASTS, HIPS... I TOOK STEROIDS, TRANSFORMED MYSELF, AND FELT MORE CONFIDENT. THERE ARE A LOT OF SENSITIVE AND DELICATE YOUNG BOYS WHO DON'T FIND THE STRENGTH TO DO THIS... AND WHO SHOULDN'T EITHER! BUT I DID IT, AND IT WORKED. THE WORLD IS A VIOLENT PLACE, AND SOMETIMES YOU NEED TO TOUGHEN UP.

DO YOU LISTEN TO MUSIC?

MY PARENTS USED TO LISTEN TO CLASSICAL MUSIC. BY THE WAY, MICHÈLE AND I ARE WATCHING A DOCUMENTARY ON STRAVINSKY ON NETFLIX [STRAVINSKY: STRAVINSKY: ONCE AT A BORDER], WHICH IS MARVELOUS.

LOTS OF WAGNER, SHOSTAKOVICH, STRAUSS, PUCCINI... THEN I DEVELOPED MY OWN TASTE WITH IGGY POP, BOWIE, MOTORHEAD, AND MINISTRY. MY FIRST CONCERT WAS DAVID BOWIE'S STATION TO STATION IN 1974. THAT WAS REALLY SOMETHING! BY THIS TIME, THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW WAS ALREADY PART OF MY LIFE. A GREAT TIME FOR LETTING GO AND SELF-DISCOVERY.

MUSIC IS ALWAYS VERY IMPORTANT IN YOUR SHOWS...

I PREPARE ALL MY COLLECTIONS, STARTING WITH MUSIC AND SHOES. IT'S THE FOUNDATION. FOR THE LAST SHOW, I ASKED PEACHES IF SHE HAD AN UNRELEASED TRACK.

SHE SUGGESTED SEVERAL, AND I CHOSE ONE. THEN I LISTEN WHILE DESIGNING, FITTING, AND WORKING ON THE COLLECTION. AT THE SAME TIME, I'M WORKING ON AN EXTENSION OF THE SONG, WHICH, IN ITS FINAL VERSION, SHOULD LAST AROUND FIFTEEN MINUTES. I DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. IT'S THE SAME HABITAT. IN RECENT YEARS, I'VE BEEN PLAYING SONGS BY BANDS THAT WERE IMPORTANT IN MY ADOLESCENCE, LIKE SISTERS OF MERCY.

AND EVERYDAY MUSIC?

NOW WE'RE LISTENING TO JUDY GARLAND. IT'S VINTAGE AND SOOTHING. IT HELPS ME DEAL WITH LIFE'S DIFFICULTIES. WHEN I GO TO THE GYM, I LISTEN TO VERY VIOLENT TECHNO. DRIVING TO THE FOREST, I LISTEN TO OPERA. SO, I'D SAY: JAZZ, OPERA, AND TECHNO.

DO YOU LOOK FOR NEW MUSIC ON YOUR OWN?

ALL THE TIME! I DON'T REALLY HAVE A DEDICATED TEAM. RECENTLY, I WAS LOOKING FOR SOME NEW GABBER AND CAME ACROSS BRUTALISMUS 3000, WHICH I LOVE. THERE'S ALSO EPROM BY THE SHADES DUO, WHOSE SAME TRACK I'VE USED FOR ALL MY INSTAGRAM VIDEOS FOR YEARS, [HE CUTS JUDY GARLAND TO PLAY IT BACK REALLY LOUDLY]. I LOVE REPETITION. SHE SAYS SOMETHING LOYAL AND COHERENT.

WOULD YOU SAY YOU'RE OBSESSIVE?

I LIKE TO EXPLORE. I LIKE TO STUDY. PEOPLE NEED CONSTANT STIMULATION. THEY NO LONGER UNDERSTAND HOW TO SLOW DOWN AND APPRECIATE SOMETHING. IT REMINDS ME OF LAGERFELD, WHO PROMOTED THE DISPOSABLE. HE'S BEEN THROUGH SO MANY ERAS AND THINGS AND THROWN THEM AWAY. IN A WAY, HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FEROCITY OF THE FASHION WORLD, WHICH CONSUMES AND DISCARDS. I WANT TO BE THE EXACT OPPOSITE. WHEN I LIKE SOMETHING, I LINGER ON IT WITHOUT IMMEDIATELY REPLACING IT. THE CLOTHES I OFFER EVOLVE AT A CERTAIN PACE, SLOWER THAN WHAT PEOPLE EXPECT. NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE SUPER-FAST.

SO, NO TIKTOK?

NOT YET, BUT VERY SOON! EVERYTHING I SEE ON TIKTOK IS ABOUT SPEED AND GREED. I WANT TO CREATE A CALM PRESENCE. I PUBLISHED A BOOK A LONG TIME AGO IN WHICH I SHAVE EYEBROWS. IT WAS A CEREMONY—A WAY OF BRINGING FREAKS INTO MY WORLD. I'LL DO IT AGAIN. INVITING PEOPLE OVER AND FILMING MYSELF SHAVING THEIR EYEBROWS. I ALREADY HAVE SIX VIDEOS. IT'S VERY INTIMATE, TRANSGRESSIVE, AND SLIGHTLY SEXUAL. IT'S A FETISH EXPERIENCE! SO NOW YOU HAVE A PREVIEW OF MY TIKTOK.

YOU SPEAK OF THE CEREMONY. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW ON RELIGION?

I RESPECT IT VERY MUCH. RELIGION OFFERS A SET OF RULES THAT PEOPLE CAN CONSULT TO BEHAVE BETTER. THAT'S THE GENERAL THING. DO YOU KNOW THE CHURCH OF SAINTE-CLOTILDE? I GO THERE A LOT. I USED TO GO THERE WITH MY PARENTS WHEN THEY CAME TO VISIT. MY MOTHER WAS CATHOLIC. NOW THAT THEY'RE DEAD, I GO THERE AND THINK ABOUT THEM.

IT'S A PLACE OF CONTEMPLATION.